Hmmm ... 'CFOS Open Line' and 'interesting' in the same sentence? Already sounds groundbreaking (or oxymoronic), but do tell, do tell, what little tidbit of rumour have you picked up on to so taunt us? Some of us have to work mornings, y'know, and we'd so like to know ... or at least know it was all hashed over here on the SBP days before the call-ins caught wind of it :)

Or should we speculate! Maybe Yo Harper will spill out on his homie Georgie about their G8 rap? or is it bigger than that. No wait, it's about Sauble, so that lets out politics. Hmmm ... someone picked up on my Tenneco Repurposing Proposal? Or will the met office explain why it just keeps raining maybe? Aw, c'mon. Just a hint.

Just saw this article in the July 16, 2008 Sun Times:
Petition calls for cut in Sauble Beach parking rate
Personally I hope they keep the rate at $10.00. For crying out loud, it costs more for a hot dog and fries, or going to see a movie at the cineplex. Where can you park all day at the beach in Toronto (or anywhere in Toronto for that matter for $10/day) These tourists should get a grip or stay home. Why do we encourage them to come here and put additional strain on our aquifer for the benefit of a few business owners anyway?
kltpzyxm

so here we go again...more garbage and probably little fact..if it is a major piece how come so few(I guess only our
invisible councillor(Wunderlich) knows and so is it a real information piece or another attempt to politic? Who is running this show????It should be a positive statement about this place...stop the knocking it down and start to show some pride in what we have and where we are..nothing may be perfect but we have come a long way with this new council..despite the carryovers from the previous council..GaryM and MXYZPTIK .you are right.if it is parking get a life..... it is here to stay and we need to go forward not keep on complaining...if it is the beach and plovers let the MNR reply..we are not the experts here YOU THINK YOU ARE
I know about the Blair petition as well..a little too late and obviously the business focus is skewed...what about the costs to keep this place up and running ..will the revenue come from them(business)NOT!!!! and so we all pay again so the business folk can spend time down south!!!!
So do you think that the news agencies will be listening and pick uo this amazing story???

so I read the newspaper and would offer the following
1. it is only the town side that is the issue..the First Nation parking of $10..the private parking lots of $8 to $10 to $20 are not a concern...they have been there in some cases longer than the town sites ..where is the logic?
2. could it be poor weather and gas prices that have reduced some visits to the beach..although based on the news no other beach is crying and they have paid parking rates higher than here?
3.what ratepayer wants to use precious tax dollars to pay for beach maintenance so day trippers can be here..they leave their garbage/use our washrooms(the upgrades paid for by PAID PARKING REVENUES)/frequent some shops and leave
4. could it be merchant prices that drive folk away($18 for 2 hamburgers and drinks...or ride ticket costs etc etc)
5. while some merchants may say sales are down others say they cant keep product in the stores..I guess a better questions for merchants having issues ..what are you doing in your place of business to increase sales?..the same product year after year just does not sell
6. why is it that the business owners want to drive this question..is it so they can clean up in two months and leave for the south to enjoy the money ..where are their solutions to bringing revenue here to plan for improvements....we need money to further the plans for the beach...more washroom upgrades/community square/park additions etc etc//will the business owners give the monies for these things and thus allow the town not to charge parking I DONT THINK SO..so where does the money come from???
7.many other beaches charge and charge higher rates..in checking with some of them there may be complaints but overall the use of the funds to improve the area makes better sense than using tax dollars...and some of our folk cant see this
8. It states in the article that Councillor Wunderlich has arranged a special meeting on Monday to review the petition...please...it is the regular meeting of Committee of the Whole and Blair is a delegation ....anyone can request being on the agenda

I guess I find it interesting that Blair and his petition can ask for no fee or reduced fee but offer no alternatives for the revenue

In some ways it is good that CFOS has such a small range ..this whole thing is pretty small compared to other issues we should be addressing

You're right; CFOS bashing without real cause is unjust, sorry. It is, afterall, perfectly possible they will break from their usual and take up the role of a conflict resolution councellor and take that time for a Friday Morning earnest attempt to get the diverged sides of whatever story to really empathize and feel the other's point of view and they will leave the timeslot knowing they have made a positive social contribution to the healing of the many rifts between the residents.

I mean, it could happen. It doesn't absolutely need to be disjoint dis-informations pitting passions in deadlock for the vicarious joy of watching the head-butts, does it? I mean, they could change, it could happen.

I hope someone logs in here and tells us, but we'll probably know anyway by the happy smiling faces we see on both sides of the resolve.

Y'know, this whole mish-mash wouldn't happen if we'd done what Myx said and just had a plan and vision statement on what this place is. Eco-preserve paradise on Lake Huron or Wasaga-overflow-parking or a closer to T.O. Victoria-BC-by-the-Lake, I mean, all of them are good and folks could make rational decisions about living here or not if they just knew what the heck it was going to be like here in 5+ 10+ or 50+ years.

And Mel, left to my druthers, I'd rather your daughter (or mine) could find a sweet job here as a disney animator or a YTV voice actor or a Boeing design engineer rather than a soda-jockey or cottage cleaner, but hey, I realize I don't share opinions with a lot of folk, I'm quite used to it in fact.

First of all let me comment on your private message I didn't receive. Yes, i received word that you had sent a private message but thats all I received. And no I'm not lying. Now lets look at your arguments:

1) You state something is an added value then disagree with it--how does disagreeing with an added value , as you say, make sense???

2)If your argument in #2 made sense then logically getting rid of paid parking in Ontario would solve all the other problems in Ontario (high gas prices, high taxes,lousy weather, etc). You could save the world.

3)To my understanding, as explained by Bill Jones through some members of the parking committee to me, if the parking monies were put in a Sauble Account just for Sauble and that account didn't have enough money to cover the total cost of the project, the project could not be done until all the needed monies was in that account, but if the money is in the general account the shortfall can be covered and the project can be done ie all the washroom improvements at Main St. 3rd and 6th were well above the monies raised by the parking fees but were completed. Mark can ask Pat Stock about that one.

4) Are 2 burgers and 2 drinks (non alcoholic) worth $18 in a lot of places . I dont think so... In some places here they are.

5)Three things to check.
a) what is the percentage of taxes paid by merchants as compared to residents. I believe if you check revenue forecast you will see business 10% residential 90% approx.

b)Even with 2 busy months most businesses don't stay open the other 10 months so who are you trying to kid. Other than the Patch and the hardware store whats open from the stop lights to the gates over the winter months ???

c)I note that those flowers hanging from the light standards paid for themselves and hung themselves or haven't you noticed them. More signage to direct people onto the beach from the parkway north of the traffic lights.... The washrooms.

7) Who are you referring to with flat rate. The Town owned area, right. The natives charge flat rate and so does Twinnings. Also, you said it in your own words, the parking committee recommends only. What they say is not cut in stone. Having talked to a couple of members of that original committee the original recommendation (when this committee was formed )voted unanimously for a ten dollar flat rate. Council reduced it to $5. Would you say the council should not have changed that recommendation because it came from the Parking committee??? You can't have it both ways.

8) As usual it wasn't Mark who said anything wrong, it was the newspaper's error this time.

In closing, try to follow your own words. Start working together with everyone, instead of being the armchair critic you are. Most of your rebuttal is easily dismissed with fact as shown above. Get the whole picture before you speak.Talk to all concerned before speaking.
Why do you feel that you need to attack me as a person..I have opinions and I did not attack anyone..the facts were what I used ..Debate can only be achieved when we discuss and offer valid points..or am I missing why we are talking???

This comment has been moved here.

ok, i'm curious. i missed the broadcast ... would someone please post a synopsis of what transpired on the open line?
kltpzyxm

if i owned a business at the beach and was 'suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' i would consider offering a $10 discount (or some other amount) to anyone who spent X amount of dollars at my establishment to offset their parking fees. i also noted this week that Twinings have $5 parking most late afternoons and on days when the weather is not 'ideal'.
kltpzyxm

found this bit online this morning...
Sauble paid parking opposition
my response to:
majority of callers - thanks for helping to save our aquifer
one caller - your loss our gain
another person - 'i weep for you, i deeply sympathize'
another caller - it is only $50 for the entire season - go buy a pass
kltpzyxm

Is it true, did I read this right...
With a tax base which is the envy of the entire county and beyond.
And that no "hard" services has ever been provided.
And what services they do provide is either under scutiny and or being cut back on ( F.D.)?????

We needed the paid parking revenues to put fire hydrants in.

I guess better late than never.
The drop in my Insurance may cover the bag tag costs which could be coming down the pipe. So that is a wash..

Now the "other" service they provide, on a regular basis, snow ploughing and road repair, are we gonna get hit with a fuel surcharge on this???

Well I hate to say I told ya so but ... no, wait, I actually love saying that, but that's not important right now. What is important is how folks notice that I was wrong on one point, namely that the broadcast actually was interesting, but I'll qualify that in that it was interesting in the sense of the Chinese Curse, "May you live in interesting times." -- 'interesting' in that the leopard was caught clearly showing its spots, and that is a lesson we could all take from this.

This whole event was clearly orchestrated propaganda, not community development conflict resolution, certainly not 'debate' or 'discussion', and, of course, consider the demographic targetted by this icky bit of agitprop: the very first thing you can strike off the list is youth (who will, after all, inherit this Beach) otherwise the discussion would have been over Facebook or TheOwen.ca, and being business hours and AM radio rather than thoughtful OpEds in the ST (giggle), the media strategy here is clearly sidestepping stakeholder (involved and informed) working-class heros; this was targetted as a proclamation to the disenfranchised and as a flash-point for highly polarized habituated opinions that will ignore all opposing facts or alternative world views.

Considering also the participant list, the enigmatic teaser posted here prior to broadcast seems also, well, more strategic than informational.

It's nasty mean-spirited faux-info garbage like this that caused me to switch off CFOS two years ago; their plummeting ratings maybe suggests I'm not alone in my lack of patience with them (despite buddy Walt's comments on that post) and yes, as I already said, they could change, they could change tomorrow, but I have to seriously ask: would they?

sigh

Mind you, to be fair, it's a darn sight better S:N than our own new local radio, but that's a farce for another day.

but that's not important right now

What is important is how we have managed to clear up just one thing, that whole question of the General Fund destination for the parking profits, assuming we get independent confirmation of the overspending of this by Sauble and the coverage of the over through the GF structure, then, even being a Gentleman's Agreement, it is still a Good Thing, more or less.

Although it does also undeniably illustrate that the parking fee is a tax, levied on the visitors yes, but also levied on the residents as a precurser to the coming Age of User Fees; don't use the beach? Well you just shaved $50 off your municipal taxes there bud. Don't use the Arena either? Don't have kids in Hockey? Don't have kids at all? ...

The age of the slippery slopes, and here we see the strategy in a new taxation without representation also showing its spots as it seems, as has been said here before, the $300,000 which Amabel residents were already paying into the Beach share of General Fund was is "not enough" to cover the Beach Costs and so, so as not to enrage the electorate, we sneak it in as a user fee, a tax targetted at only the actual consumers of the common property.

Historically, ie that which we never learn from, this is how the Commons is progressively cut up and sold off (what % does the ticket-machine's master take?) and the abundance of the Earth veiled by false gods of Scarcity. This is what happened to the happy prosperity of England prior to Malthus or to the Happy Colonies prior to the tax acts that lead to Ben Franklin's famous ultimatum visit to England. You see, there was a reason for the pooling of resources in a Commons, turns out, a mathematical reason (Nash Equalibrium) which states that choices made for the benefit of all turn out, in aggregate, to be choices made to the superior sum prosperity of the community, whereas user fees throw back to feudal days when only the elite could afford the far inferior community wealth.

Ah well, forget I said that.

In other news, I didn't see it, but at yesterday's beautiful free concert-in-the-park (in Owen Sound) someone told me they'd seen an editorial cartoon in the SunTimes which riffed on my alternative parking revenue strategy. I didn't see it, but I'm pleased it got at least some public ridicule (better than being ignored!) -- if anyone has a scan of this, I'd love to tag it to that post.

As I too have spent many years in both Print and Broadcast Journalism, I often found it a stretch for me to bring my style "upto" the Grade 3 reading level required to get the point to all.
Gary is a refreshing change, makes me run for my thesaurus and forces me to think not only about what, but how the points are being addressed.
I am a firm and unshakeable believer in how studying history makes one comprehend the present.
Regardless of what the issue posed here may be a hostorical reference will often either confirm your argument or blow yer a.. out of the water.
In this political debate, the questions should be posed as to not what the parking issue is all about, but HOW we have gotten to this point. We have ( not me cuz I am a newbee) bled the Beach as a cash cow since the first Model A pulled in, without any of the benefactors and stakeholders putting back. Not entirely through any fault of all. The taxes they have paid do not seem to of been directed properly and keeping things up to speed.
Now the piper has his hand out and will not strike up a note of Scotland the Brave until he his paid.
We can't change this historical fact but the current fix obvioulsy is not working to anyone's satisfaction. And I direct your attention to what I believe should be the focus as it's the cause of this ... plan and simple POLITICS..
The original parking debate and justification has been lost and now it is simply a chance to biuld up this General ledger line I hear about to pay for other things in the municipality, which may not be paying its own way...
As it is the guy in the Kilt is still waiting, and he may get bored and go somewhere else

Oh man, all that work and bother, for 20 minutes and a flat 'go fish', that's all, that's all there is, that's all you get.

"... their public appeal for relief from paid parking fees was dismissed after 20 minutes ..."
[ Council stands pat on Sauble parking ]

That's the only quote which comes close to fair and balanced journalism, but what I found particularly rotfl was this bit-bite:

"The price of parking is something we can change"

which is, of course, true in itself, but it is not the whole truth; in psychology we say that one choice is the mark of psychosis (2 is only neurosis) and while I don't want to suggest there are a hundred psychotics out there running businesses, I would want to hint that maybe just maybe maybe maybe baby there are some other options out there other than Victim Syndrome, other roads not taken, other realms not being explored, and what Karma is trying to tell us all with these gas prices et al is now is a time for creative and positive action.

Man, don't you remember the Sixties?? Did any of the marches, petitions or letter campaigns ever work? No. Even Pete Seeger eventually declined from participating in marches. Martin Luther King Jr was more than just a 'march' on Washington. The noisy wheel doesn't get greased anymore, it gets replaced.

But there are other options. search your feelings, Luke, you know this is true There are other options that do not depend on others doing our bidding. There's been a few voiced in the thread here, but there are others galore if we only stop to think, seriously think, What can I do? or better, here's a phrase we used to give troubled folks in Constructive Living sessions: What needs doing now?

Interestingly, in many religious teachings, it is said "Those who think they can, do" and yet here we have a hundred business people chanting "I think I can't, I think I can't, I think I can't" and guess what happens next ...

what is jerry blair whining about? he has ample parking at his amusement park. $10 will get you 3 laps of the go-kart track...

i was down at the main beach a few days ago and wished i had my camera. right there in front of a 'friends of sauble' trash bin someone had dumped charcoal coals from a barbeque. (i am pretty sure garym would have been furious)

tourist do not care about the beach like locals who live here do. they abuse it and leave us with the mess. take a walk down at the main beach early in the morning after a weekend (before someone has cleaned it) and look at the filth (dirty diapers, etc) left behind for someone else to clean up. please, are these the kinds of people we want visiting in our community?

kltpzyxm

This strategy broke with Kevin Belbeck's letter received at the Town Hall June 14th. It can be found on the Town site. In it he railed against the $10 fee and slandered the Property Owners without making any case on either point. He did cc Dick Waugh who seems to be able to get any unsubstantiated drivel he produces into opinion pieces in the Sun Times. Sure enough about July 18th the OSST published an editorial position that parking should be reduced to $5 at Sauble Beach. This was interesting since the last estimate by the Town put the beach maintenance costs at $340,000. I didn't look up the exact amount but I have it. Since parking net of expenses is always less than a third of that it means beach maintenance is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer. So the Sun Times bites itself by opinionating that local readers should pay more taxes. Do they have any local readers left?

Meanwhile a petition of 100 names is being collected and that is approximately the membership list size of the Chamber of Commerce. Not that I am suggesting anything but a look at the membership list shows a large number are in the accomodation business. So we need somebody reputable who is not in accomodation to sponsor the petition. Enter Jerry Blair a good Sauble businessman and community fixture who likes to make his income here and winter in the south. Jerry is a decent guy and probably did not realize he was going to get the hackles raised on the rest of the community who are paying the freight. If you understand this you will understand why the Mayor used a timer.

How much do the residents of Mallory Beach or Adamsville like paying for beach maintenance just so that Chamber members can use it to best advantage to draw in people and maximize their seasonal income?

Here comes Melissa on June 15 to tell us to listen to CFOS on June 19. I guess she figured the ducks would line up and she could deny any planned strategy.

mxyzptlk asks about Jerry's motive but I think he just got caught in the middle. Anyway it's his hundred against all the residential voters who pay tax bills. Who has the most votes?

It might have been a better choice to use Baker Bob for the petition. Someone who is not typecast as a business owner.

What if Jerry gave a free daily parking pass for car occupants spending $35 or more? Would they want to stop there first before going on to the beach? Businesses are having a mean-reversion year due to a number of variables and I would guess one offset strategy would be to aggressively pursue new business. Fighting over parking seems non productive on that account.

There always have been some residents who feel that they should never have to pay for parking and it would be wrong to assume this is purely a business thing. This resident group has been there right from the beginning when parking fees were initiated.

The business community has asked for a compromise and in spite of the timer incident (and I hope that strategy gets filed with the ones tried once but don't work well) the message has gotten through.

Someone has to pay for the beach maintenance. The only two possibilities here are to cut a big slice out of maintenance costs for the next year or pass on more costs to every taxpayer. I really don't know how feasable the first is since a lot of costs are program costs and fixed or contracted. The second option is feasable but not acceptable for ratepayers like me.

here's an idea, leave your car where you are staying and either ride a bike or walk to the beach. you'll not only save parking and gas money but also be healthier for the exercise. and please, take only pictures and leave nothing but footprints.
kltpzyxm

First, I must start out with an apology – I had promised that I would have all the facts and figures on what paid parking generates and what has been spent at the beach, either through upgrades or maintenance.

I did not get home from work until close to 10 p.m. last night – Mark was already asleep by that time – and he was out the door before I got up. I need him to dig out the documents that I will relay to you. I will try again tonight, but I’m on another night shift, so we will see how it goes.

As to writers, like Lisa (VinylGirl), I whole-heartedly agree with you. Some tourists are just rude, obnoxious and downright dirty. I remember vividly how some would wash their kids’ diapers out into the lake, I remember a whole flock of kids stopping to pee on the lawn of my parents’ cottage, I remember a cartload of tourists who decided to take up residence on my father’s catamaran on the beach. I try to be positive, like Lisa, and remember that the vast percentage of our tourists are not like that. But it’s not easy when you work retail at the beach in the summer.

As far as the timer thing at council on Monday – well, if that’s the new policy – fine. It should be used with every delegation.

And, on a lighter note, in response to Dodge who wrote:

“Here comes Melissa on June 15 to tell us to listen to CFOS on June 19. I guess she figured the ducks would line up and she could deny any planned strategy.”

Hey Dodge – if I had orchestrated this, the show would have been full of planted calls. It was not. I merely heard that it was happening and figured other people would be interested in tuning in. So shoot me for being the messenger.

But if you want to think I’m that devious – I have news for you:

• I know who shot JFK,
• I have uncovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle,
• I know where Area 51 is, and;
• Mulder and Scully were right: the Truth is Out There! lol

Okay, as promised, here are the facts and figures regarding the revenue raised through paid parking, the amount spent on beach improvements, and how much businesses and residents contribute through their taxes. This comes from the Town of South Bruce Peninsula’s 2008 budget documents.

Commercial mill rates as per $100,000 of assessment are multiplied by 0.0700837; compared to residential mill rates as per $100,000 of assessment which are multiplied by 0.00568354. When you look at the numbers, it is obvious that commercial mill rates are much higher than residential.

Now while it is not fair to compare apples to oranges, commercial rate payers pay almost double what residential taxpayers do. And commercial taxpayers don’t even have the luxury of garbage pick-up like you and I do.

Shoreline Assessment figures into this too. All of you know that when you move into a shoreline assessment area, your taxes are going to be higher. But proportionally, the former Amabel Township is carrying the weight for the Town of South Bruce Peninsula. Consider these figures:

The total budget for the Town is approximately $14.8 million. When you look at your tax bill, you will see municipal, county and education. The municipal portion of the budget is $6.1 million. Of that, $3.8 million comes from Amabel. Approximately $2 million comes from Sauble proper – more than half comes from Amabel and a third comes from Sauble proper.

Now to beach maintenance – it has long been touted that it costs $345,000 to maintain the beach annually. Here are the true figures:

• $100,000 is used by the OPP for a staff sergeant at the beach (the total budget for the entire town for the OPP is $1.8 million);
• Approximately $85,000 is used to not lay off staff over the winter – this is money that would be paid to staff if indeed they were laid off over the winter months;
• Beach maintenance is approximately $22,500;
• Washroom maintenance (contracted for all the of parks) is $60,000;
• Garbage barrel clean-up (contracted) is $50,000.

Now it is not fair to say that total beach maintenance costs are $345,000. It is not fair to lump in the costs of the OPP; nor is it fair to weigh in staff costs. When you add up the true figures of beach maintenance, it is $132,500.

Through their taxes, in the last fiscal year, the business community contributed $110,000 through their taxes.

Now onto the revenue generated from paid parking.

Based on projected figures from town staff for 2008, fines and offenses are budgeted for $40,000. Seasonal passes are budgeted at $23,000. Ticket dispensers are budgeted to generate $190,000. This adds up to a total of $253,000.

What has Sauble proper received for this?

• $89,000 for the Sixth St. washrooms (which if the Native land claim goes through – and it probably will – means that those washrooms won’t belong to the Town anymore)
• $158,000 for the Main St. washrooms;
• $73,000 for fire hydrants (the water system hook-up was provincially-mandated; fire hydrants were added due to Mark’s insistence voiced frequently to the Minister of Infrastructure, David Caplan. This will also lower the insurance premiums for all in Sauble.)

This adds up to a total of $320,000. Is this more than paid parking is expected to generate this year? You bet. However, that is not taking into consideration the revenue paid parking has generated for the last THREE years – which has gone into the General Revenue fund.

Okay, let’s review.

• Beach maintenance costs $132,500 annually. Beach businesses contribute $110,000 annually through their taxes.
• Sauble paid parking is expected to bring in $253,000 this year. Improvements to date will cost $320,000. Yet we haven’t accounted for any of the other revenue generated for the prior three years.

And then there are the residential taxpayers. We have already covered how by living in Amabel, we pay higher taxes through Shoreline Assessment. And yet we are asking these people to pay $10 (or a $50 annual rate) to visit their beach? Remember, not everyone lives within walking distance of the beach and due to our high senior population, not everyone is capable of that.

If you ask me, after reviewing these figures, Sauble is not getting its value out of paid parking. Instead, what we are doing is giving Sauble a bad reputation – especially when you consider there is free parking in Oliphant and Wiarton.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I don’t think anyone would disagree with the notion of paid parking (except for Mark) – it just has to be reasonable. Hourly rates, like there are in Wasaga and Grand Bend, make more sense. And residents should have free parking – they have paid their taxes.

What I see now is an anti-business sentiment – there is the thought that the businesses are here just to attract those “nasty tourists” who “mess up the beach”. And then, after a leisurely time working their businesses at the beach, they spend the remaining 10 months in Florida.

I hope after reading this, you realize that the businesses are doing their fair share at maintaining the beach. And don’t believe for a minute that residents themselves contribute to the necessary clean-up of the beach – the sword cuts both ways.

There are those who wish to discourage tourists from coming here. I have two counterpoints to that:

1. You knew it was a tourist town when you moved here, and;
2. If it wasn’t for the tourists, you would not have those full-time amenities that you enjoy (grocery store, pharmacy, gas stations etc.)

And I leave you with a quote from out-going Amabel Property Owner’s Association President Ms. Orma Lyttle:

“Many of the merchants are concerned that the high gas prices will reduce the number of visitors to the beach and it may be so…but then selfishly that means we have the beach to use!” (http://.apoa.ca) Newsletter April/May/June 2008

Well, it appears Ms. Lyttle was right – gas prices certainly did figure into this mix, as did the high Canadian dollar and the weather – but the Town Council (with the exception of Mark and Ana) certainly put the nail in the coffin.

If anyone wishes to check up on my facts and figures, they are welcome to review the Town’s 2008 budget. It is available at the Town Hall.

Melissa

I gonna bang a few thoughts out
- If the taxes from the stores aren't going towards beach maintenace, just what are they going towards.
Off the top of my head I can't remember if its changed or not but I don't even think the Lakeshore is ploughed in the winter. Let alone any other service
As for the comment of doing without stores.
I got kids.
I live in Bruce County.
By the time I punch through the side roads which haven't been sanded or ploughed my nerve is pretty much shot for more winter driving fun to Owen Sound , with kids.
Now I am at pre Viagra stage so it isnt a panic for me but if one of my spawn needs a script filled, Can I give it to those who remeber no stores here and enjoy driving to OS to a Pharmacy. I suggest you hurry as my kid may need the script filled quickly. Thats one example, we won't mention a beer store Handily available
So we close the store then close the school and the daycare, but i won't jump into that one again:)
Lets cut off cable and internet cuz we survived here without those services too. But they came as a progressive move for the area...
I am 43 now and I remember the great joy as a child was during the long weekends seeing all the cool cars going past the farm on the long weekends. In fact one memory I have was hearing the "motorcycle gang" thundering in the distance as they were coming down the road, and my older sister convincing me to give them the finger ( I was about 5) which I did, and they rurned the gesture.
As the weekend ended I was again out on the front lawn and they all slowed down and gave me the finger again. Which I returned. I remember the grins all the way down the line of bikes and that event has shaped my atitude since :)
Back to the story
All I can remember was Sauble being a "tourist " area. and those who live here now were introduced to the area through that
The only anaalogy I can think of would be as you were flying low on approach into a airport, you looked down and saw a house below you which you really liked. So you buy it...
And then b.... and complain about all the damn planes flying over all the time....and people looking down at your house.
Now if anyone can make sense out of that one I will be impressed.

Good gracious this is a lively thread, and well done too. Thanks everyone! Brings a tear to me eye it does to see both sides coming to grips with the details of both sides, and see what I mean? Did they get as much depth out of Radio or even those OSST opEds? No. They didn't. But here, we do.

When May and I saw this place the first time, we had never heard of Sauble Beach. We were following house-rental ads and one of them lured us to Owen Sound and while I'd been there before and liked the quaintness of the town, I also knew of its reputation as a toxic landfill, and the house was no great shakes either, for the price. But there in the paper was an ad for a place in a place called Sauble Beach ... we'd seen Wasaga, quickly, and more quickly drove on by, and we'd seen the nice little forgotten beach in Tiny Township with its one ice-cream stop and the sounds of song birds and bicycles; we called the ad and we drove out and stood on that beach, and it was beautiful. It was the Land that Time Forgot, it had coke machines that cost $0.35 (the cost of a can of coke, btw, is $0.05, I know, I've sat in on the production process) it had nice little spots to chill out and watch the waves, you could get lunch for $5, a new bikini for $10 ...

It was unbelievable for 1995. We didn't even inspect the rental spot, we signed on. This, we said to each other, was the place to be. I took a walk through the un-drained forests west of the Parkway, it was like walking to Yoda's place on Dagoba. I'd spent my whole live moving about, most of my adult live fleeing from insatiable Development Corporations, but here, man, it was nice.

I maybe have no statistics (nor any lies or damn lies) but I do have my story ...

I spent $750/month to heat that place, $200/month on long distance internet to do my work (CBC Regional News) but we just knew this place was a vision of the future that we could bank on. It s the closest I could both find and afford to what Bucky Fuller called Living in the Garden, and a place where business deals were done with handshakes. We bought in, set up, had kids, and I've now lived here longer than I've lived in any other spot on this planet.

Today a vending machine cola costs exactly what it does at the CNE, as does a burger and fries, the beach is only as desireable as the Kew Gardens Beach we left (also a Blue Flag) and its all heavy-metal funk and buzz and beer signs everywhere, just like Queen West. Unfortunately, we're unable to move for at least two years, but we've been hunting, checking out the market, and yeah, all this modern-world infestation is going to have a pay-off in the pocketbook when we sell, but we didn't move here to get money, we moved here to get real wealth; we moved here for a quality of life that is rapidly receding from the 401 northward. We're looking north, we figure you have to go to some god-forsaken bleak wilderness swamp where no developer would ever dare go, but unfortunately all that land is already taken up by the Ojibwa that the previous Developement Corporations relocated there.

We hope for a miracle, but sadly I'm not optimistic. Even if everyone were to line up behind me and stand against the false-progress of development, it is, from my experience, too late, the cat is out of the bag, the beach is no longer Ontario's Best Kept Secret, it is the Place to Retire 'Cause the Rest Are Full, money has smelled the blood here, and the hunt is afoot. Properties now sell for such astronomical sums the mortgage holders will forever be slave to bank dis-interest rates, pressured to pump up the profits just to stand still, and we cannot now go to all these international development corporations hell-bent to make that interest and shareholder return money off the inescapable Boomer-gerontology boom and say we're sorry, we didn't mean to invite this disaster on ourselves, all we can do is watch it vanish property by 6-figure property.

I was there when Yorkdale was 'developed', when Kew Beach was 'developed', when The Annex was 'developed', when Gerrard E was 'developed', when Caledon was 'developed' and while I'm happy all the real-estate agents made oodles to feed their kids and all the urban-wannabees that always dreamed of a global metropolis could now get prescriptions filled at 2am and down it with fluoridated water. To each their own Utopia, but we don't use Tylenol, we boil ginger root for head/tummy aches and sterilize wounds with watermelon mold. I didn't move to any of those places to become urban/suburban, I've been spending my whole life trying to escape being urban/suburban.

Because the human cost is just too high.

When I was in Canterbury, I stayed with a friend of a friend who lived in what was once the monks quarters of the Cathedral grounds; his place had been 'urbanized' and 'sanitized' back in the 1920's, but had sat undisturbed since. We visited a friend of his who lived in a 200 year old farm house on a strawberry farm, had lived there forever, had no reason to think his grandkids would not do the same. Makes me wonder what they and I did in our past lives to deserve such respective karma.

A total aside but I'm posting this for anyone who thinks that its a waste of time to have all these dissenting voices venting alternate interpretations, because it isn't, it's just good science:

yesterday's sun times carried a picture of lobbies restaurant patio - looked pretty busy to me.

also, in a letter to the editor someone complained because they got a ticket making a delivery to the beach because "Merchants were low on product and needed stock ASAP."

seems like business is booming, so where's the beef?
kltpzyxm

Well yes Melissa did give us some data..there is a little more to the story that should be told . I am a little late in getting this on ..I had to call town hall and others to get the information and even so there are still some things that need to be provided...so here we go.
1.Mill rate..yes the mill rates for commercial and residential are different . this comes from the Municipal Act and towns develop the ratios for their use based on this Act. Since the bulk of any community is residential it is the bench, and others are assesesed against that. I dont want to debate the ratios...all I will say is that commercial ratios are more complex...lessor vs lessee/business writeoffs/cost of land and value of buildings/buildings do not sell often etc
More important is that the resident component of revenue is $6.1m(whole town) and commercial(whole town) is $311278 forecasted
First question...what documents were used to suggest that $3.8m comes from the former Amabel ?..Amabel is split between three wards today..so how was this calculated? In addition what is Sauble proper? There is the DCA of Sauble but based on my calls to town and others no one could provide how this breakdown could be posted . Is it based on the old world of Amabel and then assumptions made? Please clarify.
2. Beach costs..the last study that produced numbers on costing of the beach was May 2003...So take the numbers and factor in the inflation costs and change in processes to manage the area. Beach maintenance should not be narrowly construed as the cleaning and care of the sand.... it is so much more. With the volumes of people that come in the warm months there are other issues to factor in...fire protection....OPP policing....animal control..bylaw enforcement... public works = mtnce of Lakeshore Blvd shoulders and signs maintenance and replacement...street lights(hydro)...garbage collections(barrels and landfill)...beach cleaning...beach raking..painting as requ'd...washroom mtnce...washroom supplies...picnic table mtnce...washroom pumpouts..debris pickup..insurance and liability on washrooms and beach..cleaning and sweeping of the tennis courts..supervisor..information centre..tourism and promotion..legal fees..all of this totals $335287.00 less revenues(75% of all fines and offences)$13950.00 and the net estimated expenditures is $321337.00 These are the figures that town hall provides and publishes . Playing with them is not my issue but they are there and as we add more visitors to the mix they go up. Yes we are a tourist area and we have to understand that these costs come into play. Should the people who live here play the full freight?..no we need to recoup from the visitors.
Now the note indicated that $110000 came from the business community for the beach????..where does this little nugget come from?.Once again I was told this is not known..so how would it be pulled from all the budget documentation
3. Paid parking ..interesting to note that there was little said about costs...the spitters cost are paid for over 3 years..total $219475(200- $90000 2008- $72145 2009 - $57330) in addition there are employee costs/supplies/telephone/bylaw costs as well...in 2008 that equates to $124645
4. I guess I should add that there is a lot of focus on the revenue forecast for paid parking.I wonder though if the businesses are down 40% in traffic wont this carry over to parking...oh foolish me to wonder that.

yes we had washroom upgrades from the first revenues from paid parking and more are planned.

anyone who want a detailed break down of the revenues/expenses and costs can get that from town hall

General Fund is the ledger that all funds that come to the town are posted in...there are the subtracking points that account for source. No one is trying to spend "Sauble" money elsewhere in the town. As a matter of fact I have heard other people in the town claim too much may be spent in Sauble. Is this a carryover in the area from pre -TBSP.????. Those who feel that they are in a losing proposition should consider de-amalgamation..build a case and prove that we in this area are in a worse place than as Amabel Township ..I personally don't see it as a fact..but I will listen

Now Melissa you say that Mark got the fire hydrants for the beach...so no one can provide us with the letter or source of this fact...even the Ministry of Infrastructure Renewal could not confirm this..so what meeting notes or correspondance file do I use to see this?.

I dont think that there are any anti feelings..it is just that all should pay their fair share of the load...when you focus only on Lakeshore you forget the free parking spots on Main and other streets and the hourly spots on 2nd provided by the town and then we have first nations charging $10 as well as the private lots charging $8 to $10 to $20.

In addition not all the business folk line with these who signed the petition
We need to come up with a solution that meets the majority approval..but I question a campaign that paints this area as a negative and a place to avoid...all the name calling as well as the presentation to council provide a poor image of the area ...is this a marketing strategy???? or did I miss that lesson in class?

i could go on at length but i do want to go the beach which does bring up one thing..Melissa you have mentioned a couple of times that in a recent property owners newsletter that it was stated that some merchants were concerned on gas prices and the other comment was selfishly have the beach to themselves...how could you not want that ..a secluded piece of beautiful sand/quiet and calm waters etc etc...that is the number one dream of many folk..but they also know that selfishly it cant be they have to share..but a dream is a dream..so lighten up