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The Bicycle Highway

Posted by garym on September 15, 2007 - 10:06am

A bike lane along the County Road 13? That's the request put to the County by Justin Julian, a safe passageway stretching from Sauble Beach to Southampton to accommodate and encourage alternative transport:

He says bicycling has economic, environmental and health benefits - and the bike route could boost tourism.
On the down side, county engineer Brian Knox says a one-metre-wide bike lane increases the cost of building and paving a road by one-third - a sum that's not in the existing road construction budget.
[ News - CKNX Radio AM920 ]

And, one may add, road construction projects here in Ontario don't come cheap, so the pro side arguments will need to provide some pretty heft figures along side of the good intentions.

If you ask me, I think I'd rather keep the parkway for those in the fast lane and pencil the cyclist laneways into some alternate routes, encourage the slipstream-suited cyclists to actually enjoy the ride, see the sights, slow down a bit and take in some wide-angle sights. Yeah, I know they love the dopamine rush, but that's my point, I'm trying to save them from their obsessions, not encourage others to join them. Must be a hundred better and more breathtaking beautiful ways to get from here to there, and many of those roads wouldn't mind to lose a meter's width or so, or get the upgrade to spare it.

There's also this matter of cycling extending lifespans and thereby contributing to the overall eco-strain and greenhouse gas, but I won't get into that.

Now, if we (they) really truly want to take the whole Blue Flagged meaning to its natural extreme, I think the County should do what London (England) is pondering to do, and ban cars from downtown Sauble Beach completely! Yes, I'm serious. At least for the Parking Season -- roll in the Dutch innovation of a fleet of sturdy and practical Community Bicycles, maybe run some entrepreneural rickshaws or eco-friendly disneyland trains and we'd have eco-tourists really taking our eco-rhetoric seriously! ;)

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"splat"

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 15, 2007 - 9:37pm.

How how how, in the caos of traffic the summer produces we haven' thad a major incident regarding a vehicle vs a bicycle.
I have to say that as the saying goes someone looks after drunks babies and bicyclers in this area.
Scenario
coming around a curve on the Sauble Falls road at a reeasonable rate of speed and with full attention directed to the road. High hedge on one side blocks my view of the 8 bicyclers riding two a breast and two lagging behind in single file. expanse of maybe 25 meters.
Speed is lowered but the distance closes too fast even at the slow rate of speed and a corrective course is taken to the left to avoid the laggers.. The eyes raise to see "renta RV " logo on top of a large vehicle coming towards me. The driver of the RV and my eyes meet. And low and behold he has his own bicycle to deal with which he has moved to his left to avoid.
I swerve to the right and as my rate of speed is down I sandwich myself in between the two bicycles lagging behind, with around 8 feet to the rear of space and 5 to the front. I drive on the the (luckily ) smooth and manicured lawn of the campgound. I hear in the back seat
"cooool drivin dad".
Now I sit and the two laggerscome over and as if in a predetermined go on the offense matter of defense the one says hey we have every right to be on the road too.
In a witty moment, considering the heart rate at the time, I reply " and so does a ground hog.
A two to four cm head jerk back, alook of confusion and off they go.
I give the guy in the RV a thumbs up and we carry on our day.
I must of discussed the incident with the youngest one as to this day sometimes he asks "How many points for a bicycle????"
Whe I hear the OPP say that slow drivers a cause for concern and if you are elderly and you see a line of cars behind you then pull over. The frustration level grows for those behind the slower drivers and charges can be laid for impeding traffic flow.
Without stomping on someones "right to be on the road" I would almost like to say. If someone can be given a ticket for driving too slow what is the fine for driving way too slow with a vehicle which can't be seen until you are almost ontop of it. My gut says no bikes on the road at all. This would never fly. But if I come around acurve and I see a bike on the road with no hope of stopping, and I see a transport coming the other way. I will look into the back seat at my kid and say hang on. and hope I don't end someones right to be on the road.

right to the road

Submitted by mxyzptlk on September 16, 2007 - 8:32am.

do bicycles pay licence fees to the ministry of transportation for maintenance and construction of the highways? if not, then what gives them the 'right' to use highways that were designed for motorized vehicles not bicycles. it would be far safer to have bicyclists pay licence fees to maintain bike trails and/or lanes next to the highways.
kltpzyxm

Yes mxyzptlk, Bicyclists pay taxes

Submitted by Dan O. on September 17, 2007 - 6:59pm.

License fees aren't the major source of taxes for new roads. Other taxes are. That would include gas tax but also income tax and good old PST.

Somehow we have taken for granted the roads as being owned by vehicles. This is only true for 400 series highways. The others were originally for walking, then animal riding, wagons, bicycles and lastly for cars and trucks.

Farm vehicles don't pay for a license or tax on farm fuel but you didn't ask that they be banned from the roads. Tractors are slow and the same problems occur when a car catches up on them in a very short time period.

Then there's horse and buggies. The last I heard Mennonites paid taxes but I can't confirm that. They even offer free fertilizer if you're quick with a shovel. Bicyclists generally don't have the same problem.

Bicycle lanes are an attempt to allow bicycling on the roadways while making the situation safer for the cars and the bikes. I wouldn't be underestimating numbers in saying that dozens of bikes use Oliphant Way on a Saturday or Sunday.

Many look on bicycling only as a form of exercise. In reality it is a prime source of transportation for many. We have dozens of bikers in our company who use it to commute to work each day. Bike lanes are a positive attraction for tourists, who want to take a slower form of transportation as they soak up the scenery.

My two and a half cents are to spend the money and install the lanes. Money much better spent than it has been around town the past few years.

Dan O.

SMV

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 18, 2007 - 12:08am.

The difference , from a safety stand point, is all farm vehicles and impliments and horse drawn vehicles must have a Slow Moving Vehicle sign, and it must be in good condition. A SMV has been designed to be visible and distinct at 100 yards.
That said my 89 year old grandfather was rear ended while driving on the shoulder on a flat stretch of road by a fellow who spent a wee tad little more time in the Cargill Hotel than he should of, with no other traffic on Bruce County Road three. And he had 2 visible SMV's on the tractor and impliment he was pulling. Minor non threatening ( but life shortening) injuries but he was in a neck brace for the last years.
Almost every year a mennonitte buggy is hit by a vehicle, with catastrophic results.
As for user pay, everytime we cash a paycheque or renew our drivers liscence, pay a plumber, purchase an pair of skin tight spandex biking pants or pick up a loaf of bread and a movie we are paying to be Canadian and enjoy the privileges, amenities and freedoms which that entails under the law.
If riding a bike is your thing to do and you are within the realm of the law to be cruisin down a road then so be it.
To ask or suggest that a road which is now designed to be travelled on by cars/trucks at 80 kmh :) with a 6 foot shoulder (which by tradition was designed and still being constructed for use of farm/construction/horse drawn vehicles) should be widened and paved for your comfort and conveinence, at everyones cost... then it never hurts to ask......
I would love a widened paved road, especially in the winter, will I tolerate a 5 cent a litre increase to accomplish this, no, I will drive as safely and within the current confines as I have done in the past.
With what roads we have and an infrastructure in turmoil and state of disrepair or non existent in many areas then I would say lets deal with what we have be fore we ask for some upgrades,
I have no answers or solutions, But a note that on Many prairie roads by law a Combine or tractor has the right of way at any intersection or road during harvest season. Just a matter of priorities I guess....

bicycles

Submitted by mxyzptlk on September 18, 2007 - 8:38am.

hi dan o, i did not ask that bicycles be banned. re-read it and you will see that i support the notion of bicycle lanes. i would still venture to say that the gas, income, and pst taxes paid by people who primarily drive motor vehicles far exceeds the same taxes paid by those who prefer a bicycle for transportation; no proof, just a wag, but we know a large portion of the price of gas is the tax. im all for bike lanes if the revenue for their construction and maintenance is paid for by the bicyclists (at least the same proportion of the costs that motor vehicles pay for the construction and maintenance of the highways). if the 1/3 more cost is correct then i would expect bicyclists to poney up 1/3 of what motorized citizens currently pay.
kltpzyxm

whats the problem

Submitted by hockey17 on September 18, 2007 - 1:58pm.

I note, of late, a lot of discussion here has taken place on bikes, wagons , tractors, etc and how to deal with them. What about simply following the rules-- we live in the country, so these vehicles are going to be there. Why not simply slow down and drive cautiously. What's the hurry??? These vehicles should also follow the rules--keep to the right,single file, and use the shoulder where possible, be courteous(both sides) and all should go well. We are beginning to sound and act like the vacationers--drive as fast as possible( Lake Huron might evaporate), you're the only one that counts, to hell with the rights of others. Why do we make it so hard for ourselves???

On to something a little more interesting and whimsical. In todays Sun Times, there is an article by the wife of one of our municipal politicians,Mark Wunderlich,in which Melissa Wunderlich is defending him and a couple of others. She mentions Stan Hoath and Wray Lamont as 2 of the most reasoned voices at the council. Don't you have to speak to be a reasoned voice? She speaks of proof of statements. Could she please prove where this reasoned voices idea comes from??? She mentions that no corrections in the Wiarton Echo have been made, but totally forgets that Mark himself corrected the reporter when he said in the Echo he was told not to go to the parking meetings because he was against paid parking but it was reported that he said he was not welcome. As Mr Lyttle said in his letter, that's two entirely different statements. Isn't Melissa in her article, doing the same thing to Ms MacDonald as she's accusing her of doing(disputing, critizing). Municiple politicians should realize that it is the citizens who judge their performance and if these politicians disagree with the citizens, then shouldn't they stand up for themselves rather than having their wives doing it? How do you know citizens haven't "walked a mile" maybe you should think of the other adage "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen"

kltpzyxm; when you asked

Submitted by Dan O. on September 18, 2007 - 6:30pm.

kltpzyxm; when you asked "what gives them the 'right' to use highways that were designed for motorized vehicles" I took it that you wanted them off the road.

Wayne; bicycles have reflectors required by law. The reflectors on ATV's and snowmobiles aren't much larger. We could make it safer by having all bicylists and pedestrians wear reflective vests.

On the topic of equal costs you could look at this from another point of view:
- bicycles give exercise and improve health (lower health care costs).
- bicycles are greener (less resources to build and operate) as well as less polluting during operation
- bicycles are quieter
- Hopefully we are trying to lessen our use of gasoline and lower carbon dioxide emissions. Ride a bike during good weather and save the gas tax you're paying. If you want to spend the money and pay the tax I don't think it's wrong to spend some of it to allow others the safer use of public (that means all of us) roadways.

Dan O.

good points all around

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 19, 2007 - 12:07am.

I agree Dan that maybe the benefits outway any other issues. My point was re a safety issue. When gramps got nailed , he was months in rehab and all the other costs which go toward an accident such as his. An SMV or the credit card sized reflecors on a bike will not stop an accident involving other types of vehicles on a road. I have been to enough accidents to know that car/trucks are fine on a road but throw a Human in the equation and problems will start. Atv and snow sled are allowed on trail and may use roads when going from a rsidence to a trail or going across a highway. A minor point is snowmobile drivers must pass a course and be fully insured and if you do something stupid on a sled like drink and drive your drivers liscence will be yanked as well. I think ATV 's are governed by similiar rules, but I aint sure on that....
I have to admit. I gotta history when it come to bikes and road usage, I got spooked once and when I come behind a group on bikes the flags go up and the claws do come out.
I just can't see the cost advantage with our current road system which we can't afford to maintain properly as it is when one person who is a parapalegic because of a bike accident, or a family in a minivan who is slammed justifies because of exercise if I ride a bike I can live 2.7 years longer and be a burden on the pension/ health care/ social system...... Now that is just an awful thing to say wayne....:)
as a final note before I retire. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen... then stop walkin in and stirring the pot. I deeply offended if someone said something about me and my lovely didn't stick up for me

Pardon, Wayne, What did you mean

Submitted by hockey17 on September 19, 2007 - 8:41am.

I hope I am misunderstanding the meaning of your second last paragraph. After reading it several times, it sounds to me like you are saying people shouldn't ride their bikes to stay healthy because (1) they cause accidents and (2) by staying healthy and living longer, they become a burden on society. Were you overtired when you wrote that?? If you meant it, I think you'd better give your head a shake.

rights

Submitted by mxyzptlk on September 19, 2007 - 7:18am.

hi again dan o, its a big leap from 'what gives them the right?', a question, to insinuating i was saying bicycles should be banned from the roads. walking is even better exercise. maybe everyone should just walk in the middle of the right hand lane. im am being facetious in case you cant guess. i wonder just how much our health care system and environment will benefit from the thousands, well maybe hundreds, naw its probably in the tens, of bicyclists that use the oliphant expressway. don't forget to add in the costs of injuries in accidents involving bicyclists and their long term costs to the health care system. got any figures to back up your statements and show how much might be saved? or is it just gut feel? bike lane, good idea, but not cost effective. oh, and this isnt year round? gee some of the postings lead me to think some people were biking to work year round. be sure to pro-rate your figures by the number of months use a bike lane would actually get. if they (whoever they are) want a bike lane then let them pay for it is all i am saying. personally i would prefer if bicycles were not on the road but i am not advocating a ban of any type.
kltpzyxm

sorry sorry sorry

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 19, 2007 - 10:13am.

My attempt at a humourous interjection obviously didn't fly. I thought with the little smiley face and comment I put would signify my attempt at doing my Rick Mercer impersonation....
I will be more clear next time when I switch from serious to goof mode. The voices in my head tell me when I have to do this so I have no control. But I will take your advice and give the head a shake anyway, this is very theraputic at any tme

You lost me on the last paragraph

Submitted by Dan O. on September 19, 2007 - 8:49pm.

This forum topic is actually quite civilized so I'm jumping back in with two boots on.

I understand where you're coming from with the accidents but car accidents far outnumber bicycle accidents. You tend to see this in a different light when you make emergency calls. Two of my son inlaws are volunteer fire fighters and my daughter just missed on one test (she'll try again next year).

YES GARY M - Richard has gone over to the dark side. He now leaves his computer to try to save basements. :)

Another close family friend was a volunteer too. When I drove with him 2 years ago I noticed that he didn't belt up. He said that he'd seen too many accidents where the seat belt caused the damage. He died last year when he rolled his truck and was thrown out. You have strong views based on your experiences but you need to look at the whole picture. Motorcycles have a higher accident rate than cars. Are they more dangerous or do car drivers need to drive with more caution?

Bike lanes are common place in the GTA. They move the bikers off the main pavement and are safer. At a council meeting here in Niagara region they said that the lanes are classed as separate travel lanes on the highway. In the winter they can still be used by snowmobiles and ATV's.

In Oliphant, counting bikes in the tens is a major proportion of the population. Especially in the off season.

I know of people who have been picked up for speeding on a bicycle (It's easy coming down the Niagara Escarpment) and a DUI while riding a horse (the horse kept trying to walk straight, she kept pulling on the reins). Anyone using the roads must obey the law.

Dan O.