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Peace brothers!

Posted by skyhawk on September 10, 2007 - 7:45am

Since this is suppose to be a "Feel good" website only, I guess there is no real purpose in my continued participation. Thanks Gary for letting me say my say as long as you did. I hope I always conducted myself in a civilized manner without offending anyone. If I did, I regret that my thoughts were taken the wrong way. I wish you well in your future endevours in helping to build a better community; just don't be disappointed "if the world does not unfold the way you want it too."
Long live the SBP and Canada.

AUFWIEDERSEHN KAMERADEN!

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skyhawk's comments

Submitted by mmockler on September 10, 2007 - 2:46pm.

I am not going to weigh in whether veils, burkas etc. should be allowed/disallowed at polling stations.

However, I would like to point out that this subject was the lead story in Sunday's Toronto Star and also the lead story on Canada AM this morning.

This subject will probably not be an issue in this riding or any of our polling stations - but can we not discuss it without being subjected to the abuse hurled on skyhawk by garym?

Are we SO insular that we cannot discuss issues that affect our province, our country? Or are we just focussed on our own little town? If that is true, that is sad. We are part of a global community.

We have discussed plenty of other issues here that don't have a direct impact on our community. And we have done so in a manner that was not disparaging to anyone.

I agree with Skyhawk - bye.

Melissa Mockler-Wunderlich

Change of tack

Submitted by Dan O. on September 10, 2007 - 8:25pm.

Turkey has instituted several equality laws in their attempt to join the European Common market. Even though the population is 98% muslam they put a secular policy in place for higher education and government jobs. It was the belief that this would create equality for all.

In reality it has created a division between the fundamental muslams and the general population. Before the law was enacted veiled women attended university and worked in government jobs. They interacted with and shared views with the more liberated portion of the population. This vital interaction has stopped.

The women that held strong enough religious views/beliefs to wear the veils will not attend university or work in jobs that require removal of the veils. The major moderating effect that discussion brings was lost.

In regards to forcing people to remove their veils in order to vote; they won't vote. They will become an unrepresented part of society. In regards to everyone leaving this website, we will lose the moderating effect that it plays. Everyone should be responding to others comments in a manner with the aim to move forward, to understand why people think the way they do, not cutting off the discussion.

Dan O.

I didnt realize

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 10, 2007 - 4:06pm.

Uhm I was reading this and I am concerened regarding the Zorro thing, Is it really considered odd that someone dresses up as Zorro. Not that I do or anything, You see I have this friend who does and well I am asking for them you see. Let me know so I can tell my friend if people think this is odd

How someone from an ethnic minority group feels

Submitted by KeeMay on September 10, 2007 - 11:15pm.

Reading Skyhawk's posting, I did not get the impression that he wanted any discussion.

Respects are mutual.

I feel better already.

Submitted by garym on September 11, 2007 - 12:01am.

Although I'll bet it's politically incorrect to say so.

Gee, the Toronto Star and Canada AM? Well, hey, that kinda proves my point, then, don't it?

"It has, instead, it seems, instead sunk just as low a base common denominator as the all rest, and is, hence, quite redundant."

But there's a soft underbelly of this that I find even more disturbing: that intolerance should become popularly labeled as merely 'Right Wing' and thus kinda ok, really, maybe even Bay-Street suit and tie respectable. That's pretty frightening when you think of it.

All the more so when you think that it used to mean respectable things like law and order to preserve people's rights, and fiscal responsibility in public office. Yet here today, in Respected National Media, it means barring anyone 'different' from their constitutional rights and then, rather than standing up to defend that policy, just storm off in a huff of indignation if anyone points it out as a 'bad' thing.

That's kinda interesting. I sure as heck ain't never imagined old Joe Clark ripping bourkas off the young girls, but I see now that to the New Conservative Right you can even use the photo-op to get re-elected!

Yes, well ... before my blood pressure gets out of hand again, I have to remember that one reason I choose to lives with the woodlands wildlife is because I was escaping the suits of cubicle-land, so it only stands to reason that I'd run a website that offends them. Thanks for those cold hard slap-in-the-face facts, there Dan-O, much needed, much appreciated, and says very reservedly and Red-Tie Canadian-like what I'd meant to say before I got all Right Wingish about it ;)

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Not Red-Tie

Submitted by Dan O. on September 11, 2007 - 10:42pm.

I went through the red, orange and blue ties. The more I see what's developing in the world, the darker green my tie gets. They may be off the mark on many things but the better they do the more they'll develop. If they ever get a seat they might even have political influence.

There was a talk show on the radio this week which touched on a point you made in a previous comment. The host recommended that the greatest influence that you can have is actually expressing your views to the candidates. We Canucks tend to say hello and thank you for the pamphlets when they come to our doors. The greatest effect we can have is to actually talk to them. Tell them why we are or aren't voting for them. So few people actually express their views to the candidates that a comment usually makes it back to the election headquarters.

Keemay; we're all a minority. Some visible, some not. One of the visions that I credit Pierre Trudeau with was seeing that the only way to maintain Canada was to dilute the English and French proportions of the population. To develop a Canada where people live here because they want to be Canadians not to relive the conflicts of the last 300 years. The immigrants in Quebec are the only reason the last referendum was a Non.

Dan O.

we're all a minority

Submitted by KeeMay on September 11, 2007 - 9:41pm.

I like what you said, Dan O and wish more peopl feel that way.

your reply

Submitted by mmockler on September 12, 2007 - 12:12pm.

Gary,

You need to get a life and get your head out of whatever sand dune it is under.

We have discussed many issues on this site that are more provincial/national in nature (ie. pollution, global warming, police harassment, nuclear technology).

Did you not want this site to be a forum for discussion - or is it just a site for your diatribes?

Make up your mind.

Melissa Mockler-Wunderlich

Ad Hominem

Submitted by garym on September 12, 2007 - 2:06pm.

That's good; why waste time answering the questions I put to Walt that would maybe make your itching to defrock the muslim girls into an issue one could equate with global warming, nuclear waste and sewer pipes? Far better to just jump on the media, and who cares about the message.

If you're worried about diatribes, then I recommend staying away from the Star and Canada AM too; at least here you have the right and the opportunity to take me to task on it -- like how I am taking Walt to task on his equation of 'right wing' and 'intolerance', and taking you to task on what to do if someone says your basic tenet, ie that being Conservative means a disregard for the constitutional rights of ethnic minorities is a load of, what did VinylGirl say?

Notice that, unlike your Star and Canada AM, my 'editors' did not just delete Walt's diatribe, or any subsequent posts. It's all still here, and if I am making an ass of myself by doing so, then so be it, that's part of the story too, isn't it?

Next you'll be telling me I can't have Piglet on my desk because it offends your way of life, or that I can't draw pictures of your prophet in a magazine, or curl my ice cream the wrong way. Any of that ring a bell? Indignation is still communication, I don't discount that, emotions are expression too, but be careful what you communicate by them. I communicated that I don't see any excuse for effectively barring muslim women from the polls, and I communicated that I don't think the choice to do so has anything whatsoever to do with political parties as we know them in Canada, and I communicated that any assertions to the contrary had better back themselves up because my forefathers did not put their lives on the line to defend intolerance with their lives. IIRC, it was quite the other way around.

And as KeeMay said, it didn't seem like the issue was being presented for open discussion; someone's sacred dress code was being compared to a Zorro mask. You're saying that wasn't demeaning?

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

free speech

Submitted by mmockler on September 12, 2007 - 3:53pm.

Gary,

Please read my reply carefully. I am not advocating any position as to whether the Elections Canada decision was right or not.

And, like it or not, many of the residents of the Town of South Bruce Peninsula DO rely on the Star and Canada AM for their news. Is this right? I don't know. But I think with the fast-paced lives we have, it is really all people have time for. Most people have lives and a job.

The point is - this story IS in the mainstream media and it has been interesting to watch and read the coverage from the various points of view.

What I would like to point out is that you taken it upon yourself to run a public forum where there have been MANY issues discussed that are not necessarily local.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Skyhawk's position - although I will defend to the death his right to hold one and voice it.

If you want a web site where only people agree with you can join, then please make that clear. I have enjoyed the spirited debates that have been conducted here; however, I cannot stand by and watch you attack someone because they don't share your beliefs. I cannot also stand by and let you wax philosophical and distort what people have written.

Melissa Mockler-Wunderlich

free speech?

Submitted by bub on September 12, 2007 - 9:46pm.

Free speech? yes within decorum and logic.Almost all of Walts posts have been to bring a reaction on the negative side, without any basis.For instance this last one.I dont have to show photo ID to vote. and please anyone enlighten me here if you have, its a non issue,(wear a tocque!) made to bring out bigoted remarks.Same as the Indian issue, raw feelings without any basis.Fine, be that as it may, what really irks me is his constant berating of anyone that is against his view as a left wing nut, and I even got a personal email to attest to that fact when he first joined, and it was over something about the sauble sunset! Just do a search on his posts and see what he did to Sabrinus....an ECO guy!
We have had a lot of heated remarks and discussions about oh say pipelines..not once has anyone said YOU are wrong so YOU are a right wing so and so.., in fact I think I even nudged Gary a few times about some users losing decorum(on BOTH sides)
When he first opened this site, Gary said( please help me here buddy cause I cant find it) something to the effect that this is an open site but remember its HIS blog he pays the bills and keep it civil.
So far in all of this postings about walts comments, I find
Wayne makes the most sense lol..cheers wayne :)
Personally I hate the political side of it, if you look at most of my postings, you know I love history and geography(and cooking!:)) and its such a shame to see this site go down because of issues like this.I have my own blogs, for personal issues like this, but what Gary tried to do was bring everyone together on local issues in a meaningful way, and to get us all to communicate.I remember when he first put the chatbox in it was a stormy winter night and I was the first one in and it shocked him, he said it was like a neighbour coming over and knocking on the window at 130 am to have a cup of coffee(I was 300 miles away at the time).I think this is what Gary wanted and had in sight, and maybe we should all keep that in mind, and try and keep sbp civil to all people, ethnicity,political leanings, whatever.This really should apply to all of us..not just singling out one person.As of now I wont ever post anything but local happenings and history and photos(maybe some recipes ;)) that is IF Gary decides to keep this going.
If not , Gary, let me know..I kinda got some unused webspace... ;)
anyway lets end this all, walt some of your posts were nice, love some of the stories and recipes, come back and lets all remember, we are a community.
Wayne said it best when he and I and Gary were at the horn..
: "CHEERS!"
couldnt have said it better

**********************************************************
"How does one "Seem to think"? Either you did or you didn't! "
-ZenGary

besides..

Submitted by bub on September 12, 2007 - 9:58pm.

..its all ready to go Gary.. you can view it HERE
now you wouldnt want THAT site would ya? :D

**********************************************************
"How does one "Seem to think"? Either you did or you didn't! "
-ZenGary

I have read numerous

Submitted by KeeMay on September 12, 2007 - 2:24pm.

I have read numerous postings on this site in which the language , attitude etc. REALLY turned me off. Wonder why those writers, did not receive "treatment" like what Gary is getting? My heart hurts to see people being treated unfairly. It hurts even more when that somebody is my loved one.

The owner of a store decides what their store sells, how the display window should look like, what kind of notices and flyers are allowed up on their bulletin board. Gary, as the owner of SBP, of course, has the very right to require clarification from writers whose articles appear to be "off the track".

Anybody who has jumped into the middle of this chain of comments may want to go back to the original posting, and Gary's comment to that posting before expressing their opinions.

Maw, wheres the rubber boots, I jumpin with both feet

Submitted by wayne tanner on September 12, 2007 - 6:01pm.

So what does the government have coming down the pipe...????
When I see a story like this hitting the headlines (The voting viel ) , I panic and head for page 16 and look for some little story tucked somewhere around the cat in the tree story and "5 year old opens lemonaid stand"
Somewhere in this journalistic obscurity is a story about the government is banning trampolines or raising or introducing some new tax or policy that has dark and sinsiter impact on us all...
But it works for them...
turn back the page a day or two and remember " government says Gays can marry"
This issue tied up the entire governmental and judicial system. It had the coffee shop just howling about this. Churches closed, bingo was cancelled, hockey was preempted to cover this story and the price of beer went up 20 cents a case...
The country was in turmoil. And whatever issue the government wanted to deal with, introduce or was something going to blow up in there face ( scandal) at the time and quietly was covered like a piece of sand under a beach blanket. Covered by the crisis they created.
If you want to quiet the right wing portions of society then give them a common cause and they yell at each other over it to try to outdo, out yell and prove each group is more right than the next , not yelling at the government.
Gay marriage directly affected what maybe a hundred?? thousand??. Yet the issues that affect millions were pushed aside while publicly everyone focused on it. Or were decisions being made and ended up being announced on page 16.
As the self annoited red kneck of this forum I could see how if you want to divert the peoples attention from other issues the viel thing would dominate a few debate sessions at Timmy's across the country.
But as hunting season comes up it will die off :)
Is the viel think right or wrong... don't know. Is it right to force a presbyterian girl who is living in a muslim country to put on a viel, don't know. But Ms McGillicuddy from small town Ontario knew that when you go to live another country you have to abide by the rules of that country and .........
Ok I think I will stop here.
Please check page 16 though, there could be another tax on beer they are trying to slip though quietly....

You've said it, Bub

Submitted by KeeMay on September 12, 2007 - 10:21pm.

You have said everything I wanted to say, Bub, and in a more civil way:)