South Bruce Peninsular - Event - Comments

Waiting for the Miracle

garym — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:17:30 -0500

Remember the Deep Geological Repository solution? Did you know that such a thing has yet to be built by anyone anywhere? Not even so much as a prototype. Nowhere. I wonder if that came up at those meetings.

There's more, and it's from PhysOrg, a respectable science news source, it's the Story of Stuff for the neo-nuclears, the science side of the nasty problem of what do do with the stuff this wonderful new green age of reactors is going to effluesce on us:

... recent talk of a nuclear renaissance has focused on the "front end," or reactor construction. Engineers are designing the next generation of reactors to be safer than today's - and they're being billed as a solution to global warming. Nuclear reactors do not emit carbon dioxide, blamed for heating the planet.

Few people have been talking about the "back end," industry-speak for the hundreds of thousands of tons of waste that nuclear plants produce each year, and the lucrative, secretive business of storing it away.

Waste "is the main problem with this so-called nuclear rebirth," said Mycle Schneider, an independent expert who co-authored a recent study for the European Parliament casting doubt on a global nuclear resurgence. He says government efforts to revive nuclear energy will stall without a "miracle" solution to waste disposal.
[ Nuclear Revival Rekindles Waste Concerns ]

Interesting stuff ...

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Second Opinions

garym — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:55:00 -0400

For those into the emergent democracy of online commentary, I have added a Deep Geological Repository News channel into the local feeds, drawing from recent blog posts (like this very excellent and thorough backgrounder), completely unfiltred and robotically ensured to be fair to both sides of the blogging fence. Subscribe it to your own news-readers to keep up to the moment on the ~~kangaroo court~~ proceedings.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Nothing like an old ex

Ruftic — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:44:09 -0400

Nothing like an old ex smoker eh
Dodge?
The resident love goddess and I
went for a walk on the beach today
and gathered stones for her art.
We did not see one cigarett butt!
Maybe a rant cause you can't?
Ruftic

Two Things We Don't Clean Up

Dodge — Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:52:32 -0400

Seeing as it is earth day I have a bit of a rant.

Can anyone guess how many cigarette butts get deposited on the beach on a summer Saturday? 10,000 is probably not out of line. Eighty people doing 25 cigarettes a day can leave 1000 butts so this is a conservative estimate. Raking turns them under the sand.

Which brings me to the second thing. All the plant material which washes onto the beach in a storm gets raked in. This would normall dry out and blow away leaving clean sand.

It is a myth that cigarette filters are biodegradable. It can take 15 years for the cellulose acetate (a plastic) to decay. Filters also hold toxic chemicals which they release.

Toxicity tests on Daphnia Magna (water fleas) indicate a 100% death rate in 48 hours soaking in a 2 gallon solution of distilled water and one cigarette butt.

I am not too concerned about pressure treated lumber these days. I think the biggest environmental damage is being done by discarding cigarette butts and raking the beach.

The visual impact of cigarette butts can also be considered environmental damage when you are dealing with a natural self cleaning sand system.

The sand could deal with the plant material if left alone but the butts are a different story. Time for the Friends to look at the problem.

argh wayne me boy

bub — Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:17:06 -0400

dem golden bears be offerin a ride home..arghh...

*************************************************************************
"How does one "Seem to think". Either you did or you didn't. "
-ZenGary

thumb up

wayne tanner — Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:50:26 -0400

Ah if it would be possible , as I like to plan ahead, (this is what seperates us from the animals according to my honey bunch) If there is a beach party goin on, which I fully endorse, could I get a ride home with someone????????

BTW this picture of a white male showed up to the left side of my screen and said here is Gary Murphy. People I know Gary Murphy and I know the picture displayed bears no resemblence to Gary Murphy. Please do not trust anything you see on the internet, I am not sure what scam he is running.
If you wish to see a picture of me however you may go to www.mruniversepicturesofpeoplewhoarerippedandknowit.com... take your pick of who you think I am.

Do I smell a beach party?

garym — Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:04:12 -0400

Hmmm ... dare I even ask if and what might there happen just after noon on that day? Should we bring bongos?

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Yvonne Plays Both Sides

Dodge — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:58:56 -0500

She knows she can't say Hepworth wants it but look how she is quoted on the pipeline in the Sun Times during the Jan 30 meeting,

"Coun. Yvonne Harron, a long-time member of South Bruce Peninsula and the former Amabel council, said everybody agrees Sauble needs the services and "everybody is committed to doing it with funding".

Sauble is not her ward you see and in her mind only everbody agrees.

Dan you have fallen into the trap of lies perpetuated by our Town. The numbers given as a most recent estimate on a page titled updated Jan 2007 are actually 2004 numbers. That is, 31.67 and 48.6 million are from 2004. They were broken down to cost per property but they are meaningless. In 2007 numbers the total could be $100 million. Who knows? Certainly not the people.

The other lie is that the MOE requested the ditchwater samples for this addendum. They did no such thing. The samples just happened to be available from an unrelated project. Presto- instant water samples. Read the addendum page 18-19 and see for yourself what happened and that the public actually asked for proper samples.

Henderson Padden should have stayed in the ditch that is where their standards are. The ditch water samples indicate nothing about the groundwater. Why do you think there was such a campaign after Walkerton to make sure all drilled wells were sealed from surface water?

Confusion

Dan O. — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:12:39 -0500

I tried to read many of the past posts and scoured the town's website for meeting minutes and presentations. The conclusion: everyone posting here is correct.

1) Yvonne is against the pipeline

"Comment: Councillor Harron indicated that Hepworth was not in favour of the sewer and water after the first public meeting process."

"Comment: Councillor Harron indicated that after the upgrading of the Sauble systems is completed she will be placing a motion on the table that all water users pay the same fees.
Question: Ed Feffer questioned whether Yvonne Harronâ€™s motion is being ignored
Response: Ms. Harron responded that she had indicated she was going to place a motion on the floor after the updates were completed and therefore the motion has not been presented yet. "

2) The EA appears to be required to continue with any upgrades:

"This document was prepared by Henderson Paddon and Associates. The intent of Addendum #2 was to refresh the 2001 EA completed by RV Anderson (MOE requirement to refresh EA every 5 years) and to finalize site selections for sewage treatment facility.
This document is available on the Town of South Bruce Peninsula website www.southbrucepeninsula.com
Our most recent estimate for the preferred water supply alternative is $31.67 million and the preferred wastewater system is $46.8 million
Approximately $7,000 per water connection and $11,000 per sewer connection."

3) In many ways the decisions may be development driven:

"Comment: Carl Noble referred to Treasurer Stocks comment of possibly sixty percent of users paying their portion of costs up front leaving a forty percent debenture which would be approximately twelve million. He referred to developers along with other persons wanting a safe environment."

4) The MOE did request the ditch samples:

"Recent Water Quality Data
At the request of the MOE, the Town of South Bruce Peninsula agreed to take samples of ditch water in Sauble Beach"

5) I have to assume that this addendum is just the update to keep the process going:

"Currently the Town has completed the Environmental Assessment and submitted the document to the MOE and the public for comment.
From this process we have received three Part Two bump up orders or appeals to the process and or document."

6)There's a lot of problems to be ironed out no matter what system is installed:

"Comment: Vince Artuso commented that in amalgamation is was agreed that the tax rate and user fees would be the same through the town and that Amabel and Albemarle subsidized a reduction in tax rates for Hepworth and Wiarton. Water however on the former Amabel system cost three times what it does in the former Wiarton.
Response: By Mayor Gilbert that the focus of todayâ€™s meeting with the new Council relates to their efforts to determine future direction to move ahead relating to servicing issues."

7)The EA appears to be needed to determine present conditions but there may be other fingers in the pie.

"Question: Councillor King enquired re the capacity for new growth.
Response: The current program is one for the existing development receiving water servicing but there may be some expansion based upon the outcome of the EA process."

I agree that $20,000 doesn't pay for much of anything. If all of the testing was complete and it was simply putting together a report, maybe, but it's unlikey. I hope the town gets a firm price, in writing, before they agree.

I don't like the nasty comments about Ana. She might be right, she might be wrong but she followed the wishes of her voters. I've known her to be an "honest" politician. We all make assumptions based on the facts before us. It's our final desicions and actions that count. If we didn't ask questions when we were misinformed we would never have the ability to be corrected. Maybe she's asking too many questions that people don't want asked?

Dan O.

Aging Demographic No Kids

Dodge — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:07:49 -0500

The perception in '95 seemed overly optomistic in many ways. I remember Dick Thomas saying he was going to have municipal water out front within a year. It seemed a bit of a paradox that there was such a local lobby for a wonderful school that would be supported with education taxes from cottagers who would never use the facility. Of course this is a little clearer in hindsight.

The people who are buying properties here tend to have had their families. Retirees or folks within a decade of retiring don't need the school system but they sure can use an indoor pool in the winter. Perhaps other facilities as well.

The next generation go to school where their parents live not near the family cottage. There are residents with families too and probably a growing cohort as work increases at the point. Properties at Sauble are in good supply. Jaymor has approved plans for a subdivison that can go ahead. You are right the Board has too many classrooms and good money was wasted. We paid for a mistake of listening to promoters who were not good planners. Must we repeat the past?

great post hockey

saugeenshoreliner — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:49:01 -0500

and as for cl's post, a great quote from Upton Sinclair:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it."

using logic logically

hockey17 — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:25:45 -0500

I feel I must use fact to show CL1368 the
fault in his % logic of the vote for the
pipeline. The only Mayoral candidate who
pushed for the pipeline and never wavered
was Carl. He received 21% of the vote. The
candidate who was against the major
pipeline project, pushing instead for
more cost effective solution was Gwen. She
received 39% of the vote. There is your
answer as to the people wanting or not
wanting the pipeline.Your logic reminds me
of a statement made by Yogi Berra who
said," 90% of hitting in baseball is half
mental." But I digress.
In your statement you said that $20k could
pay to do the EA.That would cover the
paperwork, but what about the need to
gather up-to-date data, assess it, compare
it to previous data,determine a root cause
analysis and revalidate all assumptions
and conclusions.That,and keeping in mind,
the current EA states that far beyond 80%
of wells sampled in 2001 demonstrated good
water quality and that any pollution on the
beach was attributed to the Sauble River
and NOT leaking septics, a complete review
of well water and septic system samples will
be needed at much more than $20k.
Your thought about being prepared for new
government funding considers that this
funding will be used for new systems. What about
the need to revamp current water infrastructure
throughout the whole province. Where is all this
money coming from? What government in their
right mind is going to give 2/3 funding
($26 million federal,$26 million province)
to 3100 properties here (Rv Anderson count).

Should we not be spending our hard earned
tax dollars finding a solution that is
environmentally safe and cost effective or
just sit back and hope for gov't assistance.

I have to ask. Did you have your tongue
in your cheek when you said Yvonne Harron
was the Voice Of Reason on council??

Final thought. I hear that this pipeline
"Dream" will make the TSBP flourish and prosper.
Then why isn't EVERYONE in the TSBP paying
equally for it and not just Sauble and Hepworth???

ok maybe I wont stay away from this:)

wayne tanner — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:13:31 -0500

Good Money after Bad??HMMM
In 95 I helped open a 3 million dollar school and even then with all the politics about biulding a new school and the hard feelings in created in the 3 communities now called SBP the one consensus I heard, and remember I was a Paisleyite import working at the school with no knowledge of who or what was going on , was once some infrastructure comes to Sauble (ie the topic we are talking about) the planned expansion of demographics will more than justify the school and the drawings even included expansion of the school which could occur quickly if things grew too fast. Now there is no infrastructure upgrades and as we all know if we listen to other issues other than this one, the school is in danger of closing again. A lot of hard work and the carrot of an expanding population convinced the board to keep it open. This argument, regardless of how well it is presented barely worked the last time and is not going to work again. The population boom is not coming anytime soon now and definetly not within the time lines presented to the school board 4 years ago..... and numbers of kids keeps dropping and will continue to drop.
And now some families may consider leaving as we have come to such we have "the sky is falling" group saying it will be a financial nightmare for some or all of us, which it very well could be......
So all those groups who donated money to biuld the facility, and I believe some of those groups are against any infrastructure improvements now, threw good money away.
Maybe a productive thread for this topic would be ideas what to do with the biulding if we don't get some movement one way or the other.

Hepworth Won't Be Left out.

Dodge — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:55:51 -0500

That idea was floated purely to let Yvonne vote without guilt for the addendum to continue. It was a good strategy but Hepworth will be part of the pipeline the participation is needed for cost reasons.

Three things needed to get pipeline funding:

1) Committed and united community
2) Demonstrated and proven need.
3) A properly executed and completed Class EA.

None of the above are in place. Neither 1 or 2 are likely to ever be in place. We now know that the addendum for updating the EA will proceed. The Town can then apply for funding.

The fact they don't care whether Hepworth gets water proves to me it is not about the water in spite of CL's post above.
Carl Noble was at the Jan 30 meeting. Jaymor was there. Carl Noble was at the meeting yesterday. Read between the lines. It is still about developers and development. The old planning adage is "Developers always follow sewers". They will use all the capacity in the proposed wastewater treatment plant in less than a decade and will push for expansion. Communities who have let developers in by supplying infrastructure have found the developers become both wealthy and too powerful in political circles.

Where do you want to be?

vinylgirl — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:47:12 -0500

CL1368, noticed your background info, you are a small business owner, pipeline guy . . .What is your vision of the future?

I don't think anyone here is sounding alarmist. It's called a discussion and thank goodness this place exists to discuss.

You can slice those election numbers anyway you want.

As Kee May, Hockey17 and others have pointed out, if the expenses are too much, people will just move. Is that a future? It sounds depressing. Should people be forced to leave? Sauble has been a paradise for a lot of people. That's why they vacation there, that's why they chose to live there.

My parents who have retired up at the Sauble homestead (in the family since the 1950's) don't need more whopping expenses for something that is not needed, or to go into debt for something that they do not feel is right for them (additives to water) or fix their own system that "isn't broke". Many people feel that way.

Isn't that responsible?