South Bruce Peninsular - the enemies of sauble beach - Comments

dUNESbury

bub — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:24:33 -0400

I think everyone is misreading everything here, we have people who have been on the beach since the 50's stating one thing people from the 60's saying something else. lets get some perspective here..ok..dunes..ancient from what era?what was the coastline, Irvs house on the dunes behind Greenhorns obviously is on a ancient dune as it is far away from the water, all the roads and cottages near silver lake are on dunes, those are ancient, the boulders on the spit are under sand now cause sand and windward dunes are in fluid motion, constantly changing.I think what we can all agree upon irregardless of what youse all think, is the beach has rare plants that should be protected, I want you all to look at this youtube video i will post at the bottom it was taken on the First Nations side and look what is happening there and could happen here, I think we can all agree on one thing, lets NOT let this happen to the rest of the beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pppswWj6f38

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"How does one "Seem to think". Either you did or you didn't. "
-ZenGary

Train the apes

Dan O. — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:44:26 -0400

Garym; what in town really is pristine? The forests are replants and second growth after logging, reclaiming poor farm land and manmade fires. The Rankin system is an artificially controlled lake/wetland system. The elms and passenger pigeons are gone. The Canada geese and beavers are back with a vengeance. The lampreys and overfishing removed much of the original fish stocks so that the present fishery is dependent on stocking. That is if you can eat the fish for the toxins. The limestone is being shipped out piece by piece, as it is one of the last few marketable commodities.

You could ban the apes from the dunes but you'd lose the connection. The connection that the Bruce trail, Oliphant boardwalk (wolmanized wood and all) and other paths give. The ability to have people develop more than a Walt Disney view of the world.

Train the apes. Educate the apes. But don't ban the apes. It isn't pristine but if the vegetated areas can be protected the dunes will look after themselves. We like to make the decisions for nature. In reality we're only a hydro line and a tank of gas from being back on an even footing with her.

Dan O.

Old Dunes, New Dunes, Been and Gone Dunes

garym — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:47:58 -0400

Dan-O, doesn't that just prove my point, that these dunes here today are not 'ancient' geological features, but relatively recent constructions? And, if it is true that these are wholly natural and not human-induced, then wouldn't it make more sense to let Nature take its course with them rather than decide, for whatever reasons, that these particular manifestions of the abstract ever-shifting dune/not-dune should be the permanent and last?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for preserving the beach as a natural thing, but really, realistically, how can that be seriously preached when we let thousands of careless savannah apes tramp it daily, and then rake the top three inches of all ecosystems nightly? Either it is conserved, or it is developed, and it just seems more like a a man-made landscape sculpture to me than it strikes me as Nature, Unhemmed as She Is Uneven. Which is ok, of course, in fact its why we decided to live here and not some ragged bit of unmolested raw shore -- its just that I like to keep it in that perspective, and the view from here says the whole Blue Flag thing is like the Healthy Choices labels on junkfood.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

You should have joined

Dan O. — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:35:40 -0400

Sabrinus; it would have been nice if you had of joined. The situation that you speak of is common in many "volunteer" organizations and your presence could have help correct the problem.

In reference to the "dump". Are you saying that Gary could be sitting on an antique gold mine :)

Dan O.

Perspective

Dan O. — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:28:08 -0400

Gary; The Bruce Beckons mentions that the closest cottages to the beach were built "on" the dune. If you look from that perspective the cottage picture is built on the dune that you're looking for and the beach is to the front. The picture would be taken from the waters edge?

On the arial view I see the dune in the picture that runs from the north parking lot south. It isn't a 3D picture but vegetation between the beach and road are visible. (No; I haven't been drinking)

Lastly; I wasn't referring to the Sauble Sawmill fire. This was an ancient forest fire from thousands of years ago. No doubt the dunes grow and move as they do in a desert. The town seems to have a constant battle clearing sand away from the road side each year to maintain the parking.

Dan O.

friends of sauble beach a misnomer

sabrinus — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:16:40 -0400

The friends of sauble beach are not what they may seem to be. They are in cahoots with the sauble chamber of commerce. Really, they should be called Friendly profiteers of sauble beach. I once considered joining them when they were a fledgling org, but decided not to after talking to some people in the know. I just wish we had a mole in their organization. Their actions and inactions speak louder than their words.

See http://www3.sympatico.ca/sabrinus/saubledunes.html

Um, the beach has always had dunes, at least since the last ice sheet receded. Get over it. Jeez. In fact, there is much evidence of dunes from previous glaciations that are far removed from the beach. My mother would admonish Manley Forbes because she would catch him taking dune sand for his construction projects all the time in the 50's and 60's.

We used to hike at trail we called The Garbage Dump Trail back in the 50's. It was named so because it ended at a garbage dump on D Line.

Dump

Ruftic — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:46:56 -0400

Great song! I was just thinking you may be in a very enviable position
(i.e. sitting on a pot of gold)! The way I remember it, at the old dump
there was a wooden trough that was connected up to the back of the "Honey
Wagon" to drain its precious contents. You may be sitting on a limitless supply of methane! (watch those matches and Butts) Ruftic

Talkin' Trash

garym — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:02:06 -0400

Point taken Ruftic ;) only it's the choice between the two that is precisely the Topic of the Day!

And besides, I never said I didn't like these dunes I'm in ...

{Refrain}
Oh, I love trash! 
Anything dirty or dingy or dusty 
Anything ragged or rotten or rusty 
Yes, I love trash 

/ F G C Am / / / F G C - /

I have here a sneaker that's tattered and worn 
It's all full of holes and the laces are torn 
A gift from my mother the day I was born 
I love it because it's trash 

{Refrain} 

I have here some newspaper thirteen months old 
I wrapped fish inside it, it's smelly and cold 
But I wouldn't trade it for a big pot o' gold 
I love it because it's trash 

{Refrain} 

I've a clock that won't work and an old telephone 
A broken umbrella, a rusty trombone 
And I am delighted to call them my own 
I love them because they're trash 

{Refrain} 
...Yes, I love, I love, I love trash

And Myx, absolutely, you get some data, please keep us posted, and ditto for anyone else who may have something tangible. Remember, it was here where the Chlorine Dioxide scandal first broke (among others) -- In the meantime, maybe we can leave the flame-bait innuendos and alarmist allegations to the mainstream papers.

Or maybe not ;)

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

pip pip

mxyzptlk — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:38:54 -0400

hi gary, as i said earlier i am still investigating my claim and will post what, if anything, i find; regardless of whether it supports or totally blows me out of the water.
kltpzyxm

Boardwalk

Ruftic — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:59:25 -0400

Gary, do you really think the boardwalk is as dangerous an issue as
living over an old dump site? (Haha) Ruftic

pip pip, tup. tip! (sic)

garym — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:43:15 -0400

So now, let me get this straight, because it's worrisome: you are worried enough to make a call to have someone drawn through the mud over a toxic oversight, but you are not actually so worried about the arsenic to actually have the wood tested??

So in other words, you knew it was a non-issue when you posted, or you actually didn't care a hoot about the outcome. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but, well, just seems to me that's not very, well, community-minded, y'know. It's like testing random undisclosed open-water sites and publically condemning them a danger to Life As We Know It, and then, when pressed, refusing to either disclose the location of said sites or to approve their clean-up ... ;)

If you can claim the wood is illegal and toxic, shouldn't it just stand to reason you'd be concerned enough to check your facts? Or were you trained for this work by a certain unnamed environmental assessment company?

Either the boardwalk is illegal, or it isn't. Either it is toxic, or it isn't. I hate to be confrontational, but it was you who posted this pretty hefty allegation to the front page of my website, so I would expect some teeny due dilligence, at least as much as we might get from certain newspapers. So ... which is it, myx? Do tell: Toxic wood, or don't know and don't care ... Or will your next post be about potential DHMO contamination of the beachfront?

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

tic

mxyzptlk — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:39:23 -0400

garym, the tongue in cheek (tic) should have been a dead giveaway. i suppose i made a wrong assumption about the other users of your service. as i stated earlier my objective was to raise awareness and that i don't really think they are 'enemies' of the beach. im not sure if we kept the sticker, but i may take a stroll along the boardwalk (in my hazmat suit of course) to see if any evidence remains. i will do as much as i can to find the definitive answer to the materials question and make the results know whether they confirm my suspicions or not.
kltpzyxm

First there is a mountain ...

garym — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:51:52 -0400

... Then there is no mountain, then there is is the way the Donovan song went, and I can't fault your reference Dan, I can only look at that aerial photo in the links posted here before and wonder then where did the dunes go in the 1920's!? It does make you pause to wonder, don't it? I mean, there were there, but they aren't there and now glory be, there they are again.

I wonder if the Lost Sauble Island had anything to do with this ...

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Rants sometimes work

garym — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:26:53 -0400

Don't belittle your concern here, myx, if indeed that sticker did say the beach lumber was from a supply that was banned in this country, then you have, my friend, become the Deep Throat of Boardwalkgate! Assuming you can back up the sticker claim, your little rant could well cause the thing to be ripped up if there isn't a lot of clarification forthcoming.

Because what started out seeming to be a nit-pick resting on bad science actually gets quite colourful when we include that the Blue Flag people say it emphatically cannot be but your own eyes say it is ... kind of like the here-then-gone-then-here lakeshore dunes trick. It begs an explanation.

Where I would fault you, though, is not in being a whistleblower on what could maybe be a big thing, but in the particular langauge you chose to annouce it, taking the immediate sociopathic stance to blame first, ask questions later; there was, and apparently still is, precisely zero cause to allude to the Friends of Sauble Beach as being any enemy, not unless you have a smoking gun that shows the use of the alledged CCA lumber was intentionally done so as to damage the beach and there is absolutely no sign anywhere of any such intent. None. If you ask me, unless you already had done the lumber analysis to confirm the sticker did finger banned wood, choosing that particular headline greatly weakened your argument, raising ires and scoffs as the immediate response.

But yes, if the details pan out, the story is interesting and, if what your son claims was stuck to that wood is truly what that wood is, and surely a simply analysis of even a small sample of the wood would confirm it completely, then someone certain is accountable for selling the Friends on a banned substance, and banned is banned, the wood would have to go, right?

Unless, of course, it is, as you hint, only banned for interior domestic use and deemed perfectly safe for the outdoors, where, last I looked, it actually is. In that particular scenario, once again, the headline, 'tic' notwithstanding, is inviting a fight, not aiming for positive change. I am, now, very curious to learn exactly which it is.

As for the dunes, I know of the ancient peninsular forest that was burned down from the victorian landowner's greed, and I know there are real dunes along spots of the Lake Huron shoreline, I just find it hard to believe there were incredible dissappearing dunes that ebbed from and then flowed back to line only just this one stretch of one side of Lakeshore, although I would not mind in the least to be proven wrong on that.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

An earlier reference

Dan O. — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:49:25 -0400

This one isn't as early as the neanderthal cave paintings but, W. Sherwood Fox in his book "The Bruce Beckons" refers to the dune: "On the landward side Sauble Beach is bounded by a sand dune as long as the beach itself." Page 12.

I haven't found the reference but I remember that when they made the road cut through the sand dune for County Road #13 near the Oliphant Women's Institute they found carbon from a previous forest fire which dated back many thousands of years.

Dan O.

the enemies of sauble beach

mxyzptlk — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:11:20 -0400

someone should be held accountable for the use, by the "enemies (tic) of sauble beach", of pressure treated lumber to construct a boardwalk to, umm, "protect" the dunes. we are asking people to use this boardwalk; imagine all the children walking (running) on the boardwalk this summer in their wet bare feet. please take a moment to read the following articles:

ecology center: pressure-treated wood factsheet

environmental defense: pressure treated woods releasing poison