South Bruce Peninsular - come into the light - Comments

Disparaging remarks

bub — Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:42:24 -0500

There is nothing that has been said on this blog that has done that.I would love to have listened to that confrontation, but its so backwoods kentucky-ish in that type of comment to you, especially at a festival per-se.It just shows a total mis-understanding of what the new communications age is about.
I have heard members of the chamber arguing amongst themselves, and I hope..that what was past is about to change; imagine someone wanting to open a business and the competing businesses actually have a say in it. Or if ,say I bought the old Sauble Lights restaurant and made it into a hip-hop happening and asked the town for permission to build a patio, and have the chamber have a say in saying *NO* that will compete with some of our existing members.What kind of free enterprise is that?
I will just let them argue amongst themselves and let them get lost in the information age.Apart from the silly Blue Flag that they brag about, there is very few postings regarding the chamber.
I just cannot imagine the hypocrisy coming from a member who probably is foaming at the mouth because " you didnt support everyones taxes to pay for my benefit" in the last election, which is really NOT what the chamber is supposed to be about.
Your website, you have made it clear from day one(and Im user number 9 so we've been through a lot )that is "OUR" website for all of us, to say what is real and what we think, and you DO regulate verbose comments that are not, shall we say, copacetic?(you even denied a request from me for an alternative name, that I did as a joke between you and I, but with very good reason, I would never have posted under that name, but you were quite right in denying me that)
Be that as it may, almost everything that I have read here, that has to do with facts, is backed up by any google search(and in fact most posts have links to those google posts) so people shouldn't be shooting the messenger, they should be aiming at the people who said such remarks in the first place.
As for the chamber itself, I really have no thoughts about them as a group, its like any group, there are really nice people and so so people, and those that you hope would go look for the lost island of sable in January.
What I will say is I personally do not like their website, they have a full page and cut it down to 1/3 width, they use annoying flash, and with a lot of older people here in this area, the fonts are really small.Oh..and yes..whos braniac idea was it having a "****hawk"(I removed the firstname) otherwise known as a seagull, as a mascot? It looks evil, and anyone trying to enjoy any beach anywhere ,knows how annoying seagulls can be, even the "dude" remarks what is this..Surf City 1968?
Im not faulting the webmaster, they just do what is asked( especially seeing that they want it for 50 bucks lol), but we must remember that people not only browse with windows, but Linux, Macs, and dont forget the blind programs, and I always allow for webpages that suck as a rule of thumb.
As for "hows YOUR webpage" comment, hmm if it wasn't for yours that means there would be none others? Oh wait maybe THIS(yep it will be up soon) or perhaps THIS (saved for a rainy day)oh yes almost forgot about THIS(I'll have to start updating that one) Gary knows I can bring out a dozen more in just a day ;)
I have been made to feel welcome in posting here, and if you have posted anywhere,you know that is REALLY unusual, we can all agree or disagree; for instance Dodge and I disagreed about paid parking at first, then I found out what he was trying to say; Sabrinus and I disagreed about the ancient sand dunes, but the sand being ancient doesnt matter, its what grows on them.Gary and I disagree about guinness, he thinks you should lift it with the left hand I say the right..
now..if you have read this far, then this is really the point, this blog is about us, our views, our community, no-one here wants to see anyone else suffer, lets build what we have, and lets have a great and fantastic future together, lets agree to disagree but lets not ever say it cannot be done.Because it can.
We dont need any down south lawyers, we dont need far away consultants, we dont need no experts on industry from Toronto, we dont need builders from Brampton, we have MUCH better qualified local people with local ideas and local skills and local workers to handle what we want locally.From Fireguys to septic experts, lets do this all together, for us.
I have said this quite a few times over the past years, but I know we can follow a small U.S. town(Fairfield,Iowa) that has on its webpage the following ideals:
"Harmony and Respect â€¢ Economic Strength and Vitality â€¢ Education â€¢ Preservation of Small Town Life â€¢ Cultural Richness, Arts, and Recreation â€¢ Natural Environment â€¢ Beautification â€¢ Identity and Reputation"
We follow that, and we are the future.

let me do it

wayne tanner — Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:36:42 -0500

Now was alchohol a factor in this conversation????
, I think that I am good at disparaging, ( by the way what does disparaging mean, I am assuming it is a bad thing)so if whats his/her name needs to brow beat someone then they can start there own website and dispracticate you and your site. But it sounds like you would have to set up the site any way so would that be a conflict of interest....
Jeez its gettin nasty out there, for someone to discaparagate someone like that...
Maybe in the future if you disrepairate again they will send more people to intimidate you , but that wouldnt be the way things are done around here is it. Better run I think one of my kids just desrespirated the other so I had better put a stop to it..

Disparaging the Chamber?

garym — Sat, 25 Nov 2006 22:53:57 -0500

Got my own taste of this phenomenon this evening, and ironically of all places as my welcome to the first-annual Christmas Tree Lighting, an event of peace and goodwill, one would think. Only, let's be fair, this wasn't any kind full on attack or even a veiled threat, but it was straight up, the first person to come out of the darkness to speak to me, and it wasn't thanks for coming out, it was "How's your website?" which took me back a bit, um er ... gee how is a website supposed to be? ah ok, I guess? and then the clarification follows in quickly: "You've been disparaging the Chamber on your site"

Say wha? Although I couldn't think of a single specific post that might be called 'disparaging' directly to the chamber, I, being me, start to explain that, to those who read this rag, there are for the pickings all sorts of things about and by all sorts of people with all sorts of grades of axes to grind or references to back them up, and how the important thing was ---

I was going to say the how important thing was that we're all able to come together airing our differences on the same page, in the same threads, in the open unafraid to discuss the issues like adults, and how that is a rare and beautiful thing ... but I didn't get the chance. The lighting ceremony was being called to order, and he left me with, "we'll talk later" and while I hung around nearly the last to leave, that conversation, or any other, was never restarted.

Disparaging remarks?? Could he mean what I'd posted about the Winterfest shimmy games? Or the why of why I reformat their calendar to promote their events free of even a thanks? Or maybe is he upset by what I'd put down here extolling their Sandfest or their Oktoberfest dances? or, gee, could it be any of these thirty-two other stories where the word 'chamber' occurs that's put his skivvies in a knot?

Sure do make me wonder. I mean, I try to be accommodatin' of everyone, and ain't I the first to jump in here with comments calling for civility and just plain being decent to one another? Could it be just one little aside embedded in some other discussion that's so ticked him he never got past it to dig the context of the whole Peninsular our stories thing?

Or could it be that he's never actually typed "chamber" into the searchbox or dare say even actually read this thing or seen it for himself, but is rallying his ire on some here-say bubbling about his backwoods? One has to wonder. I mean, I never once said a word about them pushing my one and only attempt to cut the chamber a good deal in their communications costs back to the end of the meeting while milking me for intervening policy advice, only to then tell me after several hours how they'd already decided long before I got there that they didn't want any part of my services, or how my very first-ever experience as a two-week-old resident summer-stage musician volunteer was learning of bandshell prohibitions against selling band t-shirts stageside for fear of infringing on chamber member options on tourist dollars, or related how my first ever contact as a new budding entrepreneurial high-tech internet consultancy to these parts was a personal home-visit from their top directors asking if I might build them $5,000 website ... for $50.

But no, I didn't. I kept all that all to myself because I figured it was just happenstance, crossed wires, passing personalities, nothin' systemic or dare say worthy of disparaging or discredit, and besides, who needs any direct personal respect or recognition when just being a resident here I already anonymously enjoy tons of great chamber-work, more than enough to excuse any odd social or political faux pas, and anyway, I don't see any signs posted here that proclaim any us and them exclusivity in the Peninsular memberships, aside from my nasty personal quirky penchant to deny accounts to the non-stop barrage of offshore spammers.

All our stories are belong to us

All stories have many sides. That's the point; that's what makes for a good story, and sharing those sides is what makes for good communications. If the chamber or the firefighters or if anyone else thinks the media is slanted against them (I'm talkin' 'bout you Bill Murdoch) just remember our humble community jot-pad here. Yeah, there ain't no big-city car adverts screaming at you from the marginals, but there ain't no editorial pre-decision on the stance of this site either, and an edit here usually only means adding paragraph breaks; the only 'rule' is we don't allow blatent ad-copy PR, we want first-person personal seen the way you see it.

I'm serious. It's maybe my website when the bill comes in, but this is your community journal space. I don't care who you are, you get to speak your bit about what is important to you, uninterrupted. You get your say just like you maybe do for those big-time rags, only in this spot, not only are you not reduced to a soundbite, neither are your detractors! Need to have your say without being bothered by other points of view? There are loads of great free spaces online, blogger.com or MySpace to name just two, and we here at the SBP would be more than delighted to sidebar your syndicate feed. This is the Internet. You don't need permission to speak here.

And that's why folks have more fun online. Something you think doesn't hold to the facts? It only takes a click on the Comment link to jump in and clear it up and set The Record as straight as you can make it.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Ok so if a liquor store manager

wayne tanner — Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:46:34 -0500

Ok so if a liquor store manager is not up to snuff as you imply then here are your choices from what we have to chose from locally
Me... Janitor. (and even I take upgrades for wwork at public expense)
a plumber
abus driver
hotel owner
electrician
stone mason
another janitor
3 or four factory workers
couple government employees office types
pipe fitters
a couple mechanics
grocery clerks
snow plough operators..
currently enemployed
So from this what vocation would be exceptable for a chief of a volunteer F.D.
Now we could look outside the area but that seemed to cause a stir didnt it..
Even if there was no grumbling about politicians publicly from our department, look around I think we were the only group who DIDNT publicly endorse or slam a candidate. No letters to the editor from our association that I read
gotta go get supper
and then I have to clean a couple toilets and buff a floor
and then I may have to cut someone out of a car in the ditch. If I feel I am qualified to do that since I am just a janitor..
cheers

Not A Game

Dodge — Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:56:39 -0500

You said "Because of this we have lost the most experienced first responder and a expert in disaster planning.
It was very comfortuing to know that someone with this skill and ability was very close and available if the need arose to help me or my family. Sorry for the self serving atitude on that one."

Are you talking about the person who was managing a liquor store on wheels here at Sauble some 30 years ago? Who was was being cultivated at one point to become CAO. Who was offered upgrading courses at public expense?

Self serving attitude? But not a group thing just possibly one or to individuals? It is time for a new direction.

You said "The Fire thing was more personal and simply if you got an agenda ( and I cant wont shall not go into the what I know of that issue) regardless of the cost if you don't fit into my agenda then I will make it so hard for you to do your job I will win a get my way...all I can say was if they ever make the movie "Deliverance 2" I can suggest some actors. The questions have been asked openlly now and when the truth comes to light, you may have wished you have chosen your camp differently. more than nuff said there"

Nothing organized? Okay I believe that. But undercurrents? You are a master of redirection but you indicate you have some issues. It is time to drop all of the baggage. We are moving on.

A Long tall Sally

garym — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:15:23 -0500

If'n I remembers right, it was somethin about he claimin' he got married but he havin' lots of fun, only that's just what Elvis said, Li'l Richard said it were misery that he got, which is what John said too, an' somebody said that what Elvis really said was he just got the blues. Oh baby, havin' some fun tonight.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Gary!

bub — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:10:51 -0500

What did My Aunt Mary say about my Uncle john???? HUH?? :D

your point is well taken Wayne

bub — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:00:51 -0500

I dont blame you for being upset, its not only wrong for you to be harassed, but its MORE than wrong.If anyone does that again its time for tracing the number and calling the police.The only *tannerism* I know is a fella thats available to save and risk his life in the line of duty, and that is you.
That is something that everyone should respect.
I do
cheers

Leave Wayne alone

bub — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:52:23 -0500

This is for those of you who are doing this, democracy is about voicing your opinion, and going forth and doing what you believe is right.He did just that, and he has my respect more than anything.We can all agree to disagree or disagree about agreeing, but we all want what is right for us and our families, so if you really care about democracy, and what is right, never harass someone personally, leave wayne alone.
cheers

childrens games and politics

wayne tanner — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:49:52 -0500

I am not going to wade in any deeper but I would like to tell you how when my son was very young he couldnt grasp the concept of hide and seek. After a while I found this worked..What I did was as he was standiing there looking at me and not closing his eyes I would yell "Look it is thomas the tank engine over in the trees ,or some other lovable character" and he would run off looking merrily for the distraction I baited him with. Now I had lots of time to run off and hide somewhere until he realized there was nothing to be found in the trees and again turned his attention back to the game and come looking for me. But by this time I was having a little siesta in the hammock. He was happy and eventually he learned the value of the game of hide and seek
Anybody getting this, bub let me know if this is another convulded "tannerism"
( and no did not leave my child unattended so I could sleep so dont go there :)

Straight, No Chaser

garym — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:05:50 -0500

Indeed, anyone who would call you up semi-anonymously and criticize you over a blog post ... without a really clear and specific complaint ... well, it's like they say about lending $20 to someone and never seeing them again, that it was probably a small price to pay. I'd probably say what R.Crumb had said, which I think was something about being called an Evil Genius by whole cities of a-HEM, but that he knew who they were and where they lived.

wait, no, maybe I wouldn't say that. but I would say that the opinions of such people are worth about as much as that of a random wino who might accost you in a Toronto park, and while some of them sure do have a point, the bulk of them, well, if there's a point, it's very very blurry.

Now, rather than a pint, which only solves things in movies and Irish history (so there goes that point) I say let them take out a simple free membership here and place their case next to yours and the rest can see both in the quiet of their homes. Everyone is then free to sit back and read it over and over again, and hit on Google, or hit the library, or the newspaper morgues, or go tell Aunt Mary about Uncle John who said she said that they said that ... oh bother. The fuzzy point being: when the stories are here, we can compare our mythologies (to paraphrase Leonard Cohen) and we can Fact Check and check those facts and place it all here on the table where all can see. Like Wayne says here, he's not afraid to sign his opinion, and while some here do prefer a handle to a name, well, that's the internet, you can take them, leave them, or you can fact check their b-hind and post the real goods in the very next forum thread and that begets what we all need: discussion.

Disagreement is not a crime. Neither is having a different set of data or a different interpretation of the data. The Russian mystic philosopher P.D.Ouspensky pointed out that if we understand someone's point of view then we agree with them, and that is the great challenge of discourse, and that is why we need discourse and discussion -- just as an aircraft auto-pilot spends most of its operational time off course, communities steer themselves by the balance struck between opposing points of view. That these opinions are voicefully presented is only because we care, and that ain't no crime neither.

Now, I've had that experience of people calling me up to discuss what I've written online, not just here, but also in the Internet Society and other forums, and while sometimes it is to impart information that I am not officially privy to know, other times it is just passions getting out of line; I tell them to chill a bit, put it down, put it in writing, post it online where it's not just ill-prepared and ill-informed me who will weigh it, but the whole congregation of the community who will weigh those words against their own personal timelines of knowledge, experience and intuition. That's how it works, that's how humanity works, and it may not be perfect all the time, but it's the best we've invented to date.

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

I dont think there was any organised

wayne tanner — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:46:10 -0500

I dont think there was any organised efforts at Sauble ??? If fact there was some who were kinda on the fence support. Now we have our clichs as any group does but I was outta of the loop if there was something quasi organised. In I was the only firefighter at the Sauble meet the candidates and I got called out on a call half way through..
Now the only thing I heard (second hand rumour hearsay) regarding Gwen and the Sauble hall was that she had gotten calls from us urging her to have Steve moved. again I was out of the loop if there was...
One disadvantage of wearing our hall jackets all the time is if I or anyone else was sitting at the coffee shop and someone heard one of us say something from their own personal issue list then the big wide brush could have came out a painted us all.
To answer your question what 24 individuals do at the polls or in the coffee shop is their business, what we do as a group a different story. and we are very careful not to get tttooooooo involved..
hope this clears something up for you.
Your fan club membership is due for renewal btw

You Have A Fan Club Wayne

Dodge — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:27:58 -0500

Sorry to hear you are getting calls that is a bit much for posting on a local blog site. Is there something more?

How much truth is there to the stories that the firefighters tried to do as much damage as possible to Mayor elect Gilbert's campaign by spreading rumours and lies? It didn't work but I would be interested in what you all did. It turns out the voting community did not agree in any case.

come into the light

wayne tanner — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:40:13 -0500

Hi guys
I got some "private calls" regarding some of my views. Now I chose to use my real handle so people would know what I am thinking. I suppose this is a circumstance of this and "maybe" next time I will know better, but I doubt it.
I always was quite discouraged when I would take graffitti off the bathroom walls and think this is good work, or not, and the author should sign it and recieve proper recognition. Now I have to admit on Halloween I tried to pick the best hiding spot before I threw the eggs at someone so in away I am as giulty as anyone.
So I say to those , come into the light and over beverage I would be happy to discuss it.
I have forwarded your views to ones who would be as interested including the fact you have seen evidence in writing and have gotten a couple of "HUH's and one "what?" and a "What the ... {edited for content}" But they are interested in hearing more. So I suggest we could meet at the firehall with th interested parties and see what your evidence is and all of us there can be more enlightened.
And I have read my stuff here over and over and really can find anything I would of been ashamed of and "lies". So get out from behind the tree and lets see what you have that would convince me. It wouldnt be the first time I have been proven wrong..