South Bruce Peninsular - E-lectioneering - Comments

Content of Mayor Noble's Ad

Dodge — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 00:34:35 -0400

Starts off with a womans voice sounding like a news announcer, stating that an announcement will be made in spring that senior levels of government are guaranteeing 2/3 funding for much needed sewer and water.

Then Mayor Noble cuts in with his vote me spiel to make sure we get the much needed pipeline for health wealth and prosperity or something like that.

He is trying to make people think that if they don't support him they will loose the chance of funding. Trying to scare people enough to vote for him. It has always been this way with him. Either he gets bound up in the sales pitch and has "developers waiting in the wings" or he tries to scare you into believing. He has always insisted he has a mandate these last three years and he pushed it hard but now his literature says nothing about water and sewer.

John Close is also looking for a mandate for water and sewer but there is nothing in his mailer about it. There is no talk about airpark although it was a shaped as a plank on both campaigns as published in the Sun Times early in 2006. It is interesting to go back to those articles and see how Close and Noble started out.

Mayor Noble has applied to the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund which in Ontario has been used only for large projects that benefit a lot of people. There is a $75 million minimum size. Want money for a subway in Toronto? This is your fund source.

GaryM will be interested in this. In New Brunswick where project size requirements are smaller it was used to equip 90% of the province with broadband. Also broadband for the NWT.

There is little hope that funding would be awarded to Town of South Bruce P because of the small population here but never say never. Meanwhile it provides a vehicle to base a campaign ad on.

One thing that is curious. The amount of money applied for would have to be updated for a real application. The Town is still officially using the badly outdated 2004 figure of 78.5 million. If a newer number exists we likely won't see it before the election is over. You might ask him why is he using the old number or if he has a new one. Soon it will be 2007. That will be three years out of date.

Carl Noble

GORMAC — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:50:21 -0400

Can you pls elaborate on the ad running on Beach 98 - Is it Carl's ad? If so what is the content. There is a candidates meeting tomorrow evening and we would like to be able to ask him about the funding aspect. Thanks gormac

Election Ballots and a Curious Letter from Mayor Noble Arrive

Dodge — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:10:51 -0400

The ballots arrived at the house yesterday. Also in the mail was a curious election pamplet from Mayor Noble.

If you were running on a platform which strongly pushed for a water and sewer mandate and you needed that mandate you would expect to see something in the literature sent to the far flung seasonal residents.

There is nothing there. Nada, zip. Yet on Beach 98 Radio which reaches the local crowd there is an election ad that pretends funding is received for the water and sewer project. Noble says vote for me to make sure we get the much needed pipeline.

Must be some kind of targeted marketing. No matter it has turned out that Carl Noble and John Close have not differentiated themselves and are competing for a limited pool of votes. A really bad strategy.

how did you come up with this

beendere — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:57:19 -0400

how did you come up with this nonsense...
read the right information ..the engineering
report recommends a stand alone system to start
for the DCA
remember shooting from the hip only works in
gunfights

Sauble residents give your head a shake?

bub — Sun, 01 Oct 2006 15:26:17 -0400

..and shake my head I did. Ive done a lot of that lately, mind you I have never tried it with a baboushka and trenchcoat and sunglasses, but that too may be worth a try.
There is nothing new in the days heading down to the election, that has not already been said, or posted, or blogged by not only the politicians themselves, but reporters and the community as well.
As for Gwen having a web site that endorses a local solution for water and wastewater, she is just following the original E.A. that proposed that option,which is good, and while it wasnâ€™t specific, there are options out there that are proven and are and have been in use for quite awhile,without using a massive pipeline. I could go into specifics of every treatment type and how they are located, but its suffice to say that it is very feasible, and in a non intrusive way.( And septic systems , properly working IMHO is still the way to go, and use of splitstream systems and the use of grey water ) Gary pointed to a very good article about any new development handling its own systems , and of course how the Ontario Science Centre handles its wastewater(sorry Gary cant find the post!) Even Living machines are an option.
I particularly like when asked how would the water be payed for..she said meters, user payâ€¦â€¦wouldnâ€™t it be great if I could use the same logic as some of council and Jaymor et al and make everyone in the county pay for my siding and roof?? Or perhaps that vacation for Gary to Cuba? (Iâ€™â€™ll start booking it Gary, and send the bill to council, CayoSantaMaria sound ok?)

To me, its not only the policies that should be taken into account, but also the behaviour of people, and who they choose to do business or be friends with. That in itself speaks volumes. A politician should have a certain quality, coolness and composure, and a sense of ettiquette.
While Mr. Kastner is a very good writer , and Iâ€™m sure we all enjoyed the tale of the Wildman of Oliphant he does endorse the pipeline as does the other 2, and he is involved heavily at the Wiarton airport , and we all know how that white elephant is a big drain on our pocketbook here in S.B.P.

Lets just do a refresher over the past term..all out in the open, and forever linked to Google. With Garyâ€™s post about the trial of Chlorine Dioxide at the Wiarton treatment plant, and how they raised the levels without telling the water customers ( I was wondering when this would finally come to light) this is really the start of the timeline. This is old technology using supply side chemical treatment, and remember..this is NOT chlorine, Chlorine Dioxide is a registered pesticide with the U.S. E.P.A., should the water customers not be aware of the risks in using this product, or of any variance from the specified dose? How do you as a water user feel about being subjected to this, in preparation for a hoped for larger pipeline ?
Then there was the meeting at Hepworth where the consensus was completely against the pipeline. We all remember how Power Budd was hired and how 400,000 of tax money wasted and how that very same person was charged and convicted for molesting girls, and now he reappears in the form of windfarms, and we ALL know whos farm is forefront and centre in this.
We all remember when Mayor Noble was going to get Physical ( and Iâ€™m not talking about that old song, although it could apply ;)) with Mr. Olmstead at a council meeting and had to be restrained by the Fire Chief. For using his democratic right, Mr. Olmstead was banned from attending in the future, and I rightly point out that Ms. Gilbert did not agree with that action. Isnâ€™t it about time to Free Olmstead?(and by doing so free ourselves?). Of course lets never forget about this being the worst council he has ever sat on and lets not forget protecting your Bailiwick! How about spending 500 dollars to a local lobbyist who has interests if the pipeline goes through that he could profit from enormously, while taking on very little cost of it. And lets remind everyone this letter was unauthorized and full of distortions and untruths .(full discussion here http://sbp.teledyn.com/node/603/ )
Its not only on this very blog that there is discussion about council, have a look over Here Or how about this gem..yessiree bob, the stray cats in SBP all are brought up by Tourists.
Think your taxes are too high as it is? Lets not forget the five year lease holiday at the airport, nor how in his own words, Mayor Noble said businesses and farmers can least afford new taxes while homeowners can.
Just imagine what could have been done with the 500 hundred dollars for the letter, the 400,000 for the airport, the 400,000 for Power Budd, almost a million dollars..that we know of.( I wont even get into licence fees paid to large computer programming companies when free open source compatible alternatives exist)Imagine how that could have been spent on proper things, upgrading water systems, libraries, proper computer resources in the schools, proper breakfast programs for the children at school, encouraging new technologies and ideas, that have been proven elsewhere. The old boys ,old ideas, develop forever(while the taxpayer pays and gets very little back) has got to stop before it gets out of control, and the wolves are already at the doorâ€¦and the hogs waiting to line up at the trough.Hold on to your wallet.
Exercise your vote.You can change what has been the norm for far too long.

( addendum please read waste water is not a problem, it is the solution

Smear Campaigns Rarely Work - Real Pipeline Costs

Dodge — Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:42:54 -0400

I should say smear campaigns rarely work unless they are orchestrated by people who research their subject well enough to know how to make a valid point.

For the record Brian Kelly owned the Jaymor site and received a building permit for a seniors complex some time before selling to Jaymor. He had a private water and wastewater treatment system all approved and did not need water and sewer from the municipality. This is good evidence that growth can take place without sewer lines.

Jaymor decided they could make a lot more money if they were to get services and increase the density of their development. They probably bought with this in mind. If there is no lot levy and sewers are put in it creates kind of a developer nirvana where you make the most money. Unfortunately the existing residents get stuck with the bill for the infrastructure and other growth related expenses. There is never just one developer.

Jaymor asked Council for a 2 year extension of the old Kelly permit and Council agreed. Jaymor is also waiting for the gravel pit decision to come down to determine the class of housing they will build. Old hearing history is here at
http://sbp.teledyn.com/node/273

It is an old planners adage that developers always follow sewer lines.

The price of the Wiarton pipeline and the Sauble sewage treatment plant was $78.5 million in 2004. Add at least 30% to get a projected 2007 number. It will go over $100 million. The Owen Sound Sun Times has recently been using the old 2004 number and I really think they might look a little deeper into the situation if the community is to be kept informed. This number should have been updated this year by Henderson Paddon while doing related work but it was carefully ignored. It's an election year.

A small sanitary sewer expansion project in Port Elgin was cancelled this summer for cost reasons. Saugeen Shores CAO Ron Brown says council couldn't accept the only bid -- especially since in this case the property owners will be on the hook for some of the cost of the work. Highway and other construction costs are trending higher and this will be a problem for all incoming municipal governments.

I asked about the price trend of plastic forcemain at Porters in Owen Sound and they said the price had doubled since hurricane Katrina. There are over 56 Km of water and wastewater pipe to go in. Bottom line is that means higher than previously stated costs for the homeowner. There are many residents who just can't afford their share of capital cost or payments.

Most people are, I think, realistic enough to realize there has to be another solution for the core area of Sauble Beach. It may be anything from an inspection program to a supply system.

The advances and availability of private water treatment systems and the coming inspection program are all variables that the people who live in the development control area will have to evaluate before they decide if they want to pay large for a very expensive municipal service for themselves.

I have estimates on the number of private water treatment systems operating in Hepworth from a contractor and there is a trend but my numbers are not reliable at this time. It is worth noting that Hepworth rejected the idea of a water pipeline during the original environmental assessment. Sauble core may take that path as well. There are a lot of variables and a new communal system is one option only. No one politician is insisting on a small system and I suggest that is a bad choice of words on your part.

Some candidates have pronounced in the Sauble Bulletin that the people should have the full regional $80 million dollar system. This kind of dictatorial approach means they have to do a sales job anytime there is a debate and the residents have long been fed up with that kind of approach. Other candidates are out in the community talking and listening to people on a one to one basis and learning what the people want.

Neither approach is perfect by itself but it helps to predict which ones will be responsible to the people for the next four years and which ones will be responsible to themselves if they are put in power.

Brian Kelly has seen the writing on the wall and received permission to undertake to change a Red Bay subdivision agreement to eliminate the municipal water system and go private. The change is a good strategy and long overdue.

The rest of your post, well it serves no purpose except to promote your own agenda and your material seems rather poorly researched.

Real Change at what costs?

CL1368 — Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:45:23 -0400

All councillors voted last month to allow Jaymor building permits for model homes.

All councillors are aware of the personnel issues and the money you and I paid through our tax dollars to the former fire chief. If the rumour is true...$500,000, then 10,000 ratepayers paid $50 each as a result of unethical and immoral actions of a councillor. THAT councillor, with any sense of remorse, had better not be running in this election.

Gwen's insistance of a small water system for Sauble is like being pregnant with twins and considering buying a Miata! It's just wrong. And anyone supporting NOT putting in the watermain is risking the future of Sauble Beach. Remember what SARS did for Toronto, well, have an outbreak of bad water or sewage problems and the publicity will kill the tourism industry of Sauble.

Do you discount very qualified candidates such as Paul Kastner because he hasn't rattled a cage in council? Read what he prints in the paper. At least he voices his direction.

Signs

GORMAC — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:06:49 -0400

gormac - It just goes to show how desperate we are to get a new administration in this municipality and if the signs work I;m all for it! We certainly can't afford 4 years of what has happened in the past 3!

This campaign smells funny

garym — Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:09:25 -0400

Sorry, but there's no other way to put it. Something smells really funny in this particular round of campaigns and while I know some of my neighbours have their theories I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I do know it is conspicuously limited to South Bruce Peninsula.

Now, I don't want to invite speculations or accusations, but this John Close story is just a symptom of a greater pox, dare I say a madness or maybe more fair to say a desperation invading the campaigns. In the CFOS version of the Close story, John says that he already believes some of his signs might be in "inappropriate locations" and that all we need do is phone him up and he'll remove them, but I'll tell you right here John, I feel like phoning you up every ruddy hundred yards! And it's not just you, it seems everyone is into this road-side spamming pissing contest, and I don't like it.

This is a beautiful area. I don't want to look at your dull unimaginative self-congratulatory ego-dicks sprouting mycellially at every spare stretch of grass. It irks me, it pisses me off, it makes me think you are idiots who think I am such an idiot as to fall prey to repeated meme as the sole deciding factor in my ballot marks.

When I saw signs on neighbours' yards, I asked them about their choice and I find that form of viral campaigning to be eminently useful even if I don't agree with their choices, at least I know why, at least I know something about the person behind the sign and their relation to that voter.

But look at that triangle of ground at Highway 6 and the Colpoy's Bay exit! That's disgusting. That broadcasts to the touring-visitor world that we are a bunch of petty assholes. Pardon my french.

Last weekend May and I took a trek up to Central Bruce Peninsula, yes, checking out real-estate, packing our parachute if you will, but you know what I saw up there? Or more exactly, do you know what I didn't see?

Road spam.

Ditto for Owen Sound, ditto for Flesherton and any other towns I've drifted through these past few weeks. Sure there are signs, in store windows, on lawn and farm fields, and yes, ok, a few that piss in the pool of the commons, but only a few here and there. SBP on the other hand is starting to look like the Gardiner Expressway, and if I had the spare grand to fling about, I would wager there's more than one undercompensated ego in the ballot roster here who'd jump at the chance to make video-animated road-side self-aggrandisements.

So c'mon people, let's get a bit of decorum in here before it's too late. I know you want to win, and I know you all need to win, but let's respect our beautiful space, let's respect each other, let's pause a moment and think about what we are doing and choose our actions with some degree of leadership and example. Brevity is the Art and all.

and let's get rid of some superfluous signs, eh?

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Missing Signs In Election Times

Dodge — Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:53:00 -0400

The Sun Times today says John Close has had 30 signs tampered with or gone missing but other candidates seem to be immune from this particular plague. Now if I was in the middle of a campaign I don't think I would advertise that I had.... well a few detractors. But John Close fired both publicity barrels so to speak with a $1000 reward for the culprits. Thats a lot of beer money. If I could just set up a lawn chair at a Wiarton cross street overnight I might be able to see if there is any life there after midnight.

Seriously , lets say you are not ummm.... partial to John's wish to become mayor. You go to bed one night and in the morning you glance to the street over your coffee and discover you have become an instant John Close supporter. A big green sign. What is your reaction? DON'T DO IT !! Remember those kids on the corner sitting on the lawn chairs with cell phone cameras just waiting to make some beer money. Honest, we didn't put those signs there but we got some good pictures when you ripped them out.

Quote from the paper, "Close said a few situations might have arisen from volunteers putting campaign signs in front of someone's home but on a public boulevard between the street and the sidewalk."

Right, lets add a $1000 reward to the mix and see how many new volunteers are interested in moving signs around.

More Election

Dodge — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 00:27:52 -0400

I have no idea if other`web sites are up but it would be a good idea if Candidates weighed in on this site. It is easy enough to use and many thanks to Gary for making it available.

Gary is right about Gwen's site, it is pretty mild. I am hoping she might weigh in soon with a little more history of the last three years. Gwen has risked her political reputation more than a couple times in this term merely because she thought the people were getting the shaft from the Noble gang. That is a rare quality in a politician especially when you see other councillors who don't make waves and collect their paychecks. Contrast Gwen's strenuous objections to Jay Kirkland's high school gift to Yvonne Harrons unwavering support for a deal that smelled so bad it made all the rest of us sick. Gwen wants to be mayor and I will pay some attention based on her record representing us as Councillor.

There are actually five candidates who look to me to have the right stuff to work up a better government for the next four years. Real change is a possibility.

E-lectioneering

garym — Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:57:25 -0400

With our municipal elections now only really days away, you might be starting to wonder just who's running for where and more over, what the heck do they all stand for?

In a chat with dodge I got hipped to Gwen Gilbert's website, a brochure really with many statements but no real plans-afoot to speak of, but it got me wondering, wouldn't it be fab to have a list of candidates linked to their personal blog sites so we can find out who's who and where they stand?

Only, sitting down at google, I type in garry michi only to find that he's got something to do with some campground, and likewise john close has been mentioned in the context of the airport and the property association, paul kastner uncovers only the Wild Man of Oliphant ... and most of the refereces to any mayor carl noble turns up stuff I have written, or other postings here on the SBP! Don't worry Carl, it's not all bad :)

But not terribly helpful, either.