South Bruce Peninsular - Democracy in action part 3 - Comments

Thanks Dodge

Dan O. — Fri, 09 Feb 2007 18:41:44 -0500

I appreciate your responses to my points. It looks like we agree in most areas. I tried to respond last night but after a half hour of typing I hit the back button to pick up a link. Bad move. So this will be shorter.

I understood that the MOE requested the ditch samples from information in a previous post. After reading the report in your link the data that was used was out of date and probably not applicable.

If undeveloped lots don't have to pay now why should anyone be forced to connect and pay if they already have a functional water system in place?

Do the trailer parks pay one hookup charge for the property or amount equal to the number of trailer sites X installation charge / 2.5? That's the big kicker.

If a home has unsafe water at what point does the house become unfit for human habitation? If it was a bad septic system I believe it is immediately.

I'm putting tape over my back button :)

Dan O.

Response To Dan's Comments

Dodge — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 03:03:55 -0500

Edited Feb 9
Dan and CL you are getting way ahead and raising a lot of separate issues. I want to deal with Dan's 15 point post first.

1) The MOE emphatically did NOT request testing of ditchwater for the Addendem to update the Water and Sewer EA. In fact citizens requested a complete new properly done water testing regime. Henderson Paddon made a critical error in judgement and used samples they had collected for a totally different project. H-P tried through really bad assumptions to use these ditchwater samples to satisfy the public request. The MOE would never accept surface water as a substitute to a real sampling program. That was a waste of money.

As an aside I wonder if the actual reason the data was collected is that the MOE made the Town liable if the unrelated project to combine small water systems to the school wells results in damage to the environment by building it without a twin system for collecting wastewater. That is a liability we do not carry now.

To understand what the public asked for read addendum section 4.3 pg 18. http://www.hp.on.ca/whatsnew-SBP.htm

This section will help you understand that the Town is distributing misinformation in their PDF currently posted on the Town site and presented it as fact at the Jan. information session. If you read through it you will also discover the town presented 2004 cost estimates of $78 million and represented them as current at the Jan. information session. Staff are involved in this presentation. Henderson Padddon went on in great detail about the ditchwater at the information session and fooled the Sun Times reporter. I wonder if the CAO knows what is going on?

According tp Mayor Gilbert Henderson Paddon has collected $65,000 and climbing for this addendum. They can potentially make a lot more. This unfinished addendum must be stopped by Council vote on Feb. 26 or we will face more capital costs to be paid by all ratepayers. That is why the Feb 20 Committee of the Whole meeting is critical for Sauble and Hepworth residents as well as everyone else. If you live in Mallory Beach or Adamsville you must wonder why you have to keep paying and paying and paying......

2) Septic Inspections. Grey Bruce Health will do a free inspection and make orders if there is a complaint. For example one resident asked me what to do about a neighbour who had built an addition illegally over his septic bed. These problems can be solved. For regular inspections I am on record suggesting the Town license pumpout contractors for inspections and set fees to do the inspections and pump out at the same time as well as update the Town database. They would do this on a scheduled rotation. That could be cheaper and more comprehensive than a Grey Bruce Health visual which is too expensive for what they do.

3)Small Lots. Bill Ferris discussed this in the original EA. It seems there is some combining going on. The Town may facilitate offering some small system solutions and there is more to come. Still $78 million in 2004 dollars seems a bit much to solve this noted problem. Also filter bed size technology has improved a great deal and a sealed well can be placed much closer than a driven point to a filter bed.

4)Oliphant Water. Oliphant has very few users on an expensive to operate system. The bylaw which prevents users from quietly leaving the system should be scrapped. Enough said. Another situation, Colpoys Village, has a perfectly good system which is privately owned and shared among 20 users. It will have to be scrapped. The small system water business is a nightmare best avoided.

5)Undeveloped Lots. Recovery of costs may be delayed and the Town will borrow to cover these costs. There are variations.

6)1 residence equals 2.5 trailer sites. For every $250 the homowner pays the resident trailer pays $100 for the same services. They also refuse to pay their share of policing, roads maintenance, beach maintenance and other Town operating expenses but I digress.

7)River Flow. Yes I used less than 1m/sec flow because it is easier to visualize that much flow spread across the Sauble Falls. It looks like a trickle. By the way that data is out of date and we do not have current flowrates which could be higher or lower than in 1990. Peak capacity effluent discharge to the river is actually 20% higher than the number I gave. Dilution means little it is grams of phosphate that counts. With unknown tracts held by numbered companies and developers waiting in the wings we could be running into capacity restraints in just 15 years (my speculation). It is a long slippery slope. Do we want to be on it?

8) A small system is needed in the core area. It will be expensive. As for the rest there is no demonstrated need except in the minds of a few developers and even fewer politicians.

9)I don't know. I could use a different example. The point is you cannot damage the habitat.

10) Wastewater treatment Plant Location. Sheer size put this one on the river. Reducing the number of users to 278 opens many alternatives and financing possibilities.

11) Ask Councillor Wunderlich

12)Yes it is a four year term

13)Any driven point well that is not deep enough and sealed from surface water is useless. There is little point in sampling from it. However the Town is not and never was responsible for private installations.

14) Inspections: You ar correct and the DCA should be the next area to start.

15) Sauble will be stable as long as it is a growth controlled area and we have a groundwater protection program. The biggest danger to beach water quality comes from the Sauble River. The EA said this.

I thought.......

Dan O. — Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:32:02 -0500

Thanks for the information CL1368. I thought that the beach frontage from north of 7th avenue to the Sauble River was public and if not there what about north of Chief's Point? On the other hand isn't there an aquifer that is large enough to supply Sauble as a whole from one treatment center?

Keeping the water removal and usage in the same water course was one of the native complaints about the pipeline.

I didn't realize that they had combined costs for all of the water systems together. The Oliphant line is in. I don't know the status of the treatment facility. I just wish they had of run branch lines to other built up areas that the line runs by to lower the cost and I hope they charge hookup charges and water usage charges to campgrounds that it passes proportionaly to sites.

In reference to your scenario of possible double charging for water hookup in Sauble, I have a fairly new water treatment system that will become redundant if I hook up. In Sauble you could end up paying for 3 systems.

At least they ran high speed cable in front of my house a few weeks ago. Now if I could just afford to pay for the taxes, water line, yearly water bill and cable I could retire :)

Dan O.

Why there will NEVER be a Sauble/Lake Huron intake (IMO)

CL1368 — Wed, 07 Feb 2007 16:36:39 -0500

Dan, you made very good statements that need to be considered. I can add some possible answers.

â€œI just don't understand why the water line must run from Wiarton.â€ As explained by the engineer at the previous information gathering COW meeting, there is no property ownership by the Town of land going out into the lake. Yes indeed, Southampton and others have registered property jutting out where they locate their intakes. One can only guess how many decades it would take to negotiate and at what cost to obtain the rights from the Native Community to construct an intake accross their land and beach. (a whloe other can of worms)I am quite confident in predicting that there will never ever be an intake from Lake Huron for the Sauble Beach community due largely to the Native Land claim issue.

Regarding the Oliphant system(s), as presented at the COW meeting, I understand that the upgrades are a mandatory requirement to comply with the new regulations. After numerous reports and meetings, the TSBP initiated the improvements. The Oliphant improvement solution was approved as is and may be complete by now. The other 7 systems in Sauble resulted in inclusion in an alternative solution, and is yet to be finalized (I believe). The end result was an application and approval for OSTAR funding, which brings the total cost per lot (512 lots) to $5,664. This is the shared cost of all serviceable lots in all eleven water systems. The real bite in the pocketbook is that the Sauble lots are then AGAIN included in the big pipeline calculations. This will be a thorny issue for Council to sort out, as those taxpayers look like they may be dinged twice. Iâ€™m sure that Council will make some consideration, and place the added costs on towards those that will receive water for the first time. If the Pipeline on a larger scale is shelved, then those in Sauble already on their small water system will still be required to upgrade anyway, at the shared cost of only $5,664 each.

Lucky to live in Oliphant! Please confirm all of the above with your Councilor or Mayor Gilbert. (for reference, see Public Notices â€“Upgrading existing Sauble Beach and Area Existing Water Systems)

Alternatives

Dan O. — Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:30:13 -0500

There are always alternatives. The attached links show the low water flows previously mentioned. Also attached are do's and don'ts for septic system and wetland disposal methods for the effluent from sewage treatment plants:

Dan O.

World peace and love

KeeMay — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:08:08 -0500

I am a very simple person. All I have ever wanted is to live in harmony with people and nature. Is this really that hard to do? Some people seem to have forgotten about the "environment" part; and to them, "people" mean "only" their family, friends and those who can assist them to substain their interests.

This maybe totally irrelevant, but I just thought it was put very well by Dalai Lama:

There are two ways to create happiness. The first is external. By obtaining better shelter, better clothes, and better friends we can find a certain measure of happiness and satisfaction. The second is through mental development, which yields inner happiness. However, these two approaches are not equally viable. External happiness cannot last long without its counterpart. If something is lacking in your perspective --- if something is missing in your heart --- then despite the most luxurious surroundings, you cannot be happy. However, if you have peace of mind, you can find happiness even under the most difficult circumstances.

Septic Issues

Dan O. — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:49:48 -0500

That was a very good writeup Dodge. One of the biggest problems that I've found with SBP is that no one (especially town employees) want to offer any information about anything. A prime example is when I went to the town office to check on zoning when I first purchased my property. Only after refusing to accept that the town doesn't have zoning maps in the office and that I would have to drive to Walkerton was I introduced to the town clerk and a chamber full of proposed zoning maps on the walls. You've shed a bit more light on the darkness.

I'd like to offer a few more opinions and questions to the discussion:

1) The MOE requested the ditch samples. They should therefore have an "expert" who could explain what type of results were expected. If the results were bad enough I feel that it was someone's responsibility to test local wells and find the source of the contamination. Otherwise is was more money poured down the drain.

2) As far as I've been told the septic inspections are not comprehensive. They do not include bed dye tests or even a pumped tank to check for integrity. If the tested were mandatory as part of a septic pumping campaign at least I could see some advantage to the average Joe with a properly functioning system. I've also heard that people are learning how to fool the test by prepumping a few weeks before. Even a poor system hasn't had time to crust up and smells like ode de cologne. The septic pumpers could probably do a better job and no one could complain about having to properly maintain their septic systems by pumping every 2-3 years.

3) With some small lot sizes in Sauble I don't believe that it's possible to have legal wells and septic systems installed. What are the options for these people.

4) I'm caught in the Oliphant water pipeline. Rumors are that it is costing $20,000+ per household. The only advantge to me would be lower sulfur water. For the initial charge and $900 per year I can purchase an abundance of bottled water. I have also not found out how the charges will be billed or even if I have the option of not hooking up. Life is tough when you're not in town during week days.

5) How will future development or hookups be charged? Do they pay the same full share to run the initial pipeline and build the treatment plant?

6) What are the hookup charges to campgrounds and yearly charges thereafter?

7) You're numbers for river flow are a bit misleading. One meter per second is 3600 m3 per hour or 86,400 m3 per day. 12,000 M3 per day still seems like a very large amount of potential effluent exspecially when the low flows happen during the warm summer months, but apples to apples.

8) What are the economical options to a pipeline and sewage treatment plant that is environmentally sound? A centralized plant is the cheapest and easiest to operate. It saves asking/forcing thousands of people to check their water and septics. It also supplied an known capacity for expansion and operation. As politically unpopular as it sounds the idea is used in many other areas with success. I just don't understand why the water line must run from Wiarton. They have a functioning water and sewage system. Towns much smaller than Sauble Beach have their own systems so why must the two be tied together?

9) Where are the nesting beds for samonoids in the sauble? Wouldn't they be upstream of any sewage treatment plant?

10) Why must a treatment plant be located on the river? Thre are many alternatives.

11) Where is the black "stinky sand" located? At the water edge or in feeder streams?

12)Isn't this council sitting for 4 years?

13) Even if water was tested from less than perfectly installed wells it would show the "true" state of affairs. There are cottages that no septic pumper has ever pumped. There are cottages that had their water and sewage systems grandfathered because of their age. Proper test wells could be driven to obtain overall flow patterns and contamination but wrong conclusions could be drawn from that data based on the reality of present installations.

14) The testing of septic systems must be less politically driven. The oldest systems (20 + years) need to be fully checked first. These records must be on file at the Board of Health or building department. If there is no record that would be a good place to start testing.

15) When it all comes down to it cost is only one factor. What actions are needed to supply safe drinking water and dispose of sewage in the most cost effective manner to protect the Sauble environment now and in the future? It could be a hybrid system. It will definitely include a very large retention area to handle the long weekend flushers. Where can I find out about these options?

Dan O.

KeeMay's Solution How Did It Come To This?

Dodge — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:18:35 -0500

You have captured the essence of the whole sorry mess in a simple paragraph. I do like your style. Most residents are not here until the summer to defend themselves but they mostly reflect your perspective and would shun an argument unless pressed. Some residents though do not have your option of starting again. What of them?

I am so sorry that it ever got this far. Four hundred people at the Hepworth meeting two years ago were unable to stop it. Why?

A few SMUG MISINFORMED SANCTIMONIOUS CONTROL FREAKS have been trying for years to have their way with you and the rest of the low key residents of the community. I can see you are feeling pressured.

You are not alone. More than 80% of the property owners feel as you do. The only property owner poll ever done was a mail in during 1996 while the EA was ongoing. I have copies of the 200 odd mailed in comments. About 190 of them said they were not in favour of a public water and sewer system. Almost all of the few comments in favour came from main street names such as Richard Husak. Marilyn Husak sent another one and Glen Husak another. Someone called North Shore Bungalows sent another. D Twining (now gone) sent one in. This was your Chamber speaking.

You can see the pattern. Regular folks comments can be summed up by the one from Thelma Kramer: "As I already have a water and septic system installed I do not feel like contributing to a very expensive solution. I fell the benefit is mainy for the business section. I do not want to see Sauble Beach become a high rise tourist area."

That town generated summary of all the studies that have been done does not tell you much about where we are at today. We still have a few disinformation specialists trying to control the fate of the project. Some like our own CL1368 do not own property at Sauble or Hepworth but think that there is traction for their agenda in ditchwater samples. Some like Councillor Kerr (also not a resident) are a problem because they have sided with the local Chamber of Commerce in repeating often that they will do what is right for the rest of us. Sanctimonious? Yes. Control freaks? Yes. Dangerously misinformed? Yes Jeff Graham has seriously hurt the reputation of the Town and his own firm by assuming ditch water sampling is comparable with the outcome of a properly designed groundwater sampling program. Vince Artuso gets newsprint lines in the Sun Times by saying he had more bad samples this year compared to last. Where did his samples come from? We already know anyone can get bad samples in the core area if you look hard enough. We already know they found no bad samples outside the core area in the second year of testing for the EA. So at the Jan. 30 meeting last week he was just another real estate agent with his finger in the pie hoping to shore up the sales program. I am not pointing the finger at Vince but there are property developers and speculators in the mix who have something to gain and are waiting for the big one. Phil McNichol should have known what was happening when he wrote the article but no one asked a question about statistical means tests, repeatability, random sampling technique and gathering reliable data. I know neither Artuso's anecdotal evidence or ditchwater add anything useful to the public knowledge base but reading the Sun Times report you might get the wrong impression about Sauble water.

Should we feel worried? Is it not fun anymore? To answer that you need to understand the history and look at some of what is in the bumpups. Bumpups are a part of the EA process and they are routine in Ontario. They offset the consultant-town partnership which is more of an employer-employee connection. As a side note, Councillor Wunderlich,in the last election, said he would like to find a way to prevent this kind of citizen-resident-proponent balance in the EA process. He and a few others were fed up with what they considered interference in the Town's plans on the part of two community organizations and stakeholders. Election results would indicate a new viewpoint is in order.

You will find the first half of the history of the EA here:
http://sbp.teledyn.com/node/142#new

Here is a quick look at some points covered in the bumpups. The second half of the story has not quite finished yet but the end is coming. You see where the preferred solution selected early in the EA was changed in Phase 3? That does not follow the Ontario Environmental Assessment Act. There was a breach of the process. It is old news and is just one of the points covered in the bumpups.

You see that further work had to be done? That the EA was incomplete in 2001? The fact is this project has never been construction ready because the Wiarton water treatment plant never had a certificate to produce enough water to fill the pipeline. That Class EA to upgrade the Wiarton water treatment plant is in progress but I doubt the Nawash will allow any additional water to be taken from Georgian Bay to supply a community on Lake Huron. There is already enough excess capacity to service Wiarton for future needs built in. I wonder who would pay for the upgrade if it is never utilized?

Also the wastewater treatment plant design at Sauble was never put to public scrutiny and that meant they could never get a certificate to operate even if they built it.

A few people were aware of this and watching as the Noble government spent time and money on a lobbyist and other pursuits to get funding for a project that was supposedly construction ready. It was a long standing shortage and at an appropriate time the problems were pointed out. As a result we had a scenario before the election where former Mayor Noble tried and failed to get funding to get the pipeline done when his own project was not construction ready and remains so to this day. The proper certificates are not in place.

Another request in the bumpups is for current cost estimates. All the numbers quoted by Dan Kerr and all are and all are based on 2004 numbers which were loosely based on estimates from 2001. That is 46.8 million and 31.67 million for wastewater and water are 2004 numbers. In fact the whole EA are pretty long in the tooth in year 2007. Yet a week ago the Sun Times was quoting these numbers as current. Not surprising from a paper that gives Dick Waugh free editorial reign.

Third and also important the bumpups questioned the wisdom of gathering nutrients from thousands of widely dispersed and functioning septic systems and dumping all treated effluent into the Sauble River. Treated effluent carries a daily phosphate load to the river. If we go in any direction we need to reduce the phosphate burden in the river not add to it. At rated capacity some 12,000 cu metres per day of treated effluent could be going directly to the river and at the same time measurements have shown less than 1 cu metre per second of water flow over Sauble Falls at the seasonal low point. This includes the Rankin's contribution which is well downstream of the proposed outlet from the plant. There are already other sources of phosphate such as fertilizers and farm runoff in the river water. There is a sewage treatment plant on the Sauble already at Tara and Tara is slated for growth if they can sort out their water supply problem.

There is a lot more to this. H-P did not properly sample the background phosphate levels in the river but sampled during the April flood season.

Salmonid eggs are notoriously subject to mortality during incubation in gravel beds due to siltation and lowered oxygen tension. There is a direct and well studied relationship between drawdown in overnight and long term benthic oxygen levels and water temperature and the amount of phosphate loading. It is a lot more involved then that as many aquatic organisms can be stressed with lowered oxygen levels.

More than one government body has a policy that nothing can be done to a river that would be detrimental to a fisheries resource. The Sauble Anglers and Hunters are of course very interested in how this plays out. Curiously Henderson Padden devoted some 20 pages in the addendum to the discussion of how experimental and special case waste treatment plants had lower than normal phosphate loading levels. Then they point out these levels have never been achieved in practice in Canadian operations. Why is it in there except to baffle people?

How does phosphate loading effect beach water quality? More than you might think. A quick visual indicator of the presence of high levels of nutrients is an aquatic algae that is readily visible as a long
filamentous algae. See:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/aquatic_plants/algae/filamentous_algae.html

Everyone has seen this in the lower reaches of the Sauble River and on calm days along the beach in warm water you may see a green tinge to the water without visible strands. This is algal growth promoted by excessive nutrients. The water is productive but where does this organic material end up?

I walked the beach after Christmas between Sixth St and the river and saw a two inch wide green line along the water beach interface as well as lots of material on the beach which is river sourced. All of this material is washed on shore and mixed with the sand during weather events and degrades in the sand under anaerobic (without oxygen) and aerobic conditions. This results in "stinky" sand and there are numerous references to the problem on beaches around the world in populated areas where the activities of man have resulted in a nutrient buildup. Raking may make the problem worse. It is a paradox that the most beautiful places to live can become objectionable stinking beaches. So far we have not had a problem at Sauble although Mark Wunderlich in his charming way has been fond of telling people that stinky black sand is a product of septic systems. It is not.

Was Mark listening to his constituents in the latest campaign or would he rather tell us his story of black sand and volleyball court e.Coli and how septics are polluting the beach. I predicted he would be elected this time but his future is cloudy. It may be the last time he is elected unless he votes to close the addendum process down. Councillor Vukovic reports she got the message loud and clear on the campaign trail at Sauble to shut it down. So did both elected Councillors in Hepworth for that matter.

Mayor Gilbert is well informed and knows what the regular voters want. She has also met with Chamber of Commerce president Barry Ross. In November's Sauble Bulletin Ross outlined the Chamber's position. Quote, "the issues represent the cornerstone of our Chamnbers focus looking forward over the next three years. We will consider little else until we see positive action in the way we feel is right for our community." Their number one issue: "Bringing water and sewer to the beach" So smug, so sactimonious and so idiotic. Does he possibly think their few members have ownership of the community?

Summarizing then:
The likes of the Chamber's Ross and Councillor Kerr ignore what bulk of the Sauble residents want. The engineering firm the Town hired is not doing first tier work even though they charged a lot of money to sample ditchwater and tried to convince us it means something. The quality of the beach may suffer more with a wastewater treatment plant in place. Ninety percent of the beach nutrient and organic load which includes e.Coli is sourced in the river now. The MOE publishes on line, clear guidelines for the construction of a driven point well. The MOE also publishes the regulations for constructing and sealing a well. Any water sample from a location not meeting these standards is useless for any study of ground water quality. Therefore any reliable conclusions are absent from the addendum.

A septic inspection program is the best and most achievable way to protect ground water. In the end everyone has a reasonable expectation that their neighbours are meeting standards. The EA suggested this in the core area in 1997. It seems simple enough but for a decade we have been preoccupied with a mantra and objective that said there should be unlimited growth. We have some new faces on Council and perhaps we can break with the status quo.

If Council does not kill this addendum process it will be a surprise to me. Much time and more money will be spent just to pander to the control freaks if they let it go on.

Council has a lot of new work to do without allocating scarce resources on old baggage. I hope along with KeeMay they will do the right thing.

My solution

KeeMay — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:17:03 -0500

I have always boiled water for drinking.

If I were forced into a situation where I had to pay for building the pipeline, I would simply move.

I am not ready to take on a whole council, or at least a big part of it. However, I have sworn to protect my family the way a simple housewife is capable of.

It was fun at first watching the discussion over the sewage issue. However, I got turned off as soon as it became heated argument. Nobody should "make" other people do what they think is best for themselves. That is very SELFISH. It breaks my heart to see selfish acts.

To quote the lyrics of an obscure song:

...It is just a stupid power game they play
Nobody wins or loses in the end of the day
It is just a stupid power game they play
Everybody gets hurt in the end of the day

Community Education is Possible

garym — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:02:45 -0500

and easily doable if anyone would care to collaborate enough to fill out the contents. This website has a "Community Book" module that I could switch on in an instant, and while it maybe isn't the easiest system for writing (no worse than what you use here to post comments) it does let contributors edit pages and flush out educational guides whenever they have time to work on what ever section they choose.

I for one would love to have an Operator's Manual for my sandpoint and septic. Sure, I read what I can find online, but who knows what's fact from reactionism there, and mostly, probably like a lot of homeowners, I just guess. Fortunately (knock on wood) I still have nice clean water.

So ... what sayeth the preachers? (I mean that in a nice way ;) -- is anyone up to working together a few spare hours here and there to assemble the definitive guide to owning and operating your own personal water management systems? I can certainly provide the technology to host collaborative writing and help out in matters of formatting and display, but I really can't be much help on the actual content of any such guide. If the rest of you can pledge to fill it out, though, I'd be honoured to give it a home here.

To start with, all we'd need is a rough table of contents for which I can propose the bare skeleton of

The Peninsular's Guide to Home Water Systems
Part One: Water In - How to Mind Your Well
Part Two: Water Out - The Fine Art of Septic Systems
Appendix I: Alternative Technologies

With all the usual caveat emptor disclaimers and hedgings, of course, and we shouldn't be averse to input from the officials on this so long as we all agree that this is a non-commercial free and open endeavour. No need for any posturing, no need for partisan politics, just, as they say, Just the facts ma'am matter of factly put as to what you need to do when and why and how and maybe some ideas of where and who.

So ... anyone game for writing a neighbourly public health book(let)?

In other news, I hope you're all already hipped to the Feb 20th Special Committee Meeting Pipeline Shootout at High Noon (9am, actually) round the Wiarton Council Corral. As for that last meeting, I did finally get pointed to the calendar entry and read the agenda, but y'know, other than the mention of the historical summary, it really doesn't stand out as anything anyone would notice ... apart from the strange location for a COW meeting. Sure, they (technically) own the building (don't tell any Sandpipers that) and can use it whenever, but that's a long slog from Wiarton just for a recap and review meeting, isn't it?

garym: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

Good Points garym

vinylgirl — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:19:06 -0500

A "swarovski" studded septic tank could look quite nice, it would twinkle when you tinkle. . .

I completely agree with you on your blog that "We are all co-passengers on this ship, we have to look out for each other. If we know there is a leak, it does no one any good to point at others and say it's their problem. It only makes sense to work together and find a solution for the common good. If the source is private septics, then let's collectively prove that, and, if need be, offer the homeowner an interest-free loan to help them preserve our environment."

Some people though, have already made their minds up in regards to the sources of e. coli in the streams- that being the septics, because is the easiest answer (IMHO).

The originating source of contamination in streams should be found, it shouldn't be a case of "maybe's" , "could's" , and "assumption" that is manipulated to fit anyone's modus operandi and there is no concrete proof that those wells are contaminated, just extrapolation.

Again, I would still push for a version bioretention (as I have mentioned) for those areas (streams, ponds, bogs) that are already considered "contaminated".

(I use the word streams rather than ditches, because, there are some really cute newts in there, and those streams have been there for years. (I remember getting books up at the cottage, I think they were called "Garret the Goose Explores the Bruce", and boy did my cousin and I ever find some neat stuff in the ponds and streams. )

I still think that every septic and well should be tested impartially, not to necessarily push the pipeline, but, for the homeowners ability to be able to have their own stand alone water and sewage, without having to go into huge debt or dig into their retirement savings or be obligated to monthly payments for something that they don't necessarily watn to drink. (I think I should start waving a flag).

If leaching septics are the root cause or even could potentially be a problem, I agree full heartedly with your idea of interest free loans (or maybe grants) to help those home/cottage owner(s) to upgrade their system(s). It is very viable and yes, cheaper alternative than the pipe plight. I am sure there are some nasty septics, but I can bet my sweet booty, that there are pristine ones as well. Same goes for wells. There are many other "workable compromises" out there besides the pipe and sewer.

Anyone who likes chlorine, I urge you to try a cuppa my town's water. . . especially around Thresher's Reunion. Mmmmm Mmmmm Good. If you like to have your throat bleached out, and have rust stains on your uvula.

Also EDUCATION regarding use of septic tanks. . .not everyone know's the in's and out's. . . same with wells.

EDUCATION regarding wells. . .

That would go a long way. Especially with the renters that come up, stuff should be posted or an information booklet could be on hand.

Also I would like to know about the sandpoint wells that have tested negatively when there has been a property purchase. Were the wells down far enough? Were the septic tanks located at the correct distance away from the wells? Were they kept up, or were the previous owners neglectful. There are a lot of questions.

It's Funny, Really. Sad too.

garym — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:17:21 -0500

How does it happen? How does it occur that grown adults can stand up and say "The ditches are toxic" and then not do anything to find and remove the source? If, and that's an 'if', the cause is the Gremmick area septics, then really, how many septics can you rip up and completely replace for $80,000,000? I think you could line them with platinum and diamond-stud the fixtures for that much, throw in a nice jacuzzi. If, on the unspeakable other hand, the contamination is from other sources, from standing swamp-water or seagulls or alien visitations, then doesn't it behoove someone to find out? Sure, you can speculate that ditch-water is going to seep elsewhere, but hey, isn't it even a tad important to find out where the toxicity comes from, and then stem the tide?

Because I don't agree that "Don't play in the ditch, dear." is a viable strategy, but I also have not yet seen the causal relation that says installing a single-source centralized chlorine-dioxided pipeline makes the toxic ditch go away. Even if we add in the storm-sewers to drain these ditches and truck free Dasani to every home, without knowing the source of the contamination, doesn't this simply leave the free-standing toxicity to collect somewhere else where some youngster might go a-froggin' some hot afternoon? How could it make sense to spend 6-figure sums to design a solution (sic) when nothing appears to have been spent to uncover (and treat) the source? Of, if I'm just being uninformed again, then do tell, what is the cause and source of the toxicity, and why oh why is it more important to do political posturing and name calling then to just organize a work-bee and go prevent the situation?

Vinylgirl said we should leave this in the hands of the individual owners, but I do not agree. We are all co-passengers on this ship, we have to look out for each other. If we know there is a leak, it does no one any good to point at others and say it's their problem. It only makes sense to work together and find a solution for the common good. If the source is private septics, then let's collectively prove that, and, if need be, offer the homeowner an interest-free loan to help them preserve our environment. "Oh, 'scuse me but I think your radioactive waste just made my hair fall out." just doesn't seem all that rational a response, especially not when compared to "I have an idea, how about you and me, we truck all that unrefined plutonium of yours down to the Point for proper disposal before anyone else gets sick?" Yeah, I know, I'm a weirdo.

Just as a side note, because it is already well chronicled elsewhere here on the everybody-gets-a-say Peninsular, I think it is worth remembering how the inventor of the microfiltre water purification process was an Asian woman who did so because of the dire necessity for clean water in her village. You'd think, if pipes and sewers were so great, she could have saved a lot of bother and just become a plumber.

gray: ict evangelist - musician - whatever

wet willy

wolfkodiak — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 11:40:21 -0500

Has anyone ever tasted the pissy water that comes from Wiarton...how can they pass it off as drinkable?
As for septics......seems most of the downtowners that are pushing for the Wiarton Willy Urinary Pipeline are probably afraid to get their septics inpected.....
Doesn't Kirkland sell Sauble Water in his store? Bet he couldn't give away Wiarton Water.....even if it were blessed by the great Wet Willy him/her self....
When was the river last checked for the e-coli leaching into its banks from our four legged moos and oinks (and their dates for that matter)?
Didn't we vote for Gwen to avoid this pipeline?

Pipe-whine

vinylgirl — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:28:13 -0500

I should have added a (sand) point. Any wells that "could" be in question~~~drill them down further and/or put in little UV doohicky. There is technology to do that.

Property owners have the right to safe drinking water procured from their own source. Chlorine and Fluoride should not be forced down their throats. They also should have the right not to mortgage themselves because of their bodily functions. Septic tanks are a beautiful thing if they are maintained correctly, as with wells.

A big Band-Aid solution (pipeline) is not always the best, just because some business owners may want it, or that it may encourage more business to the beach, or just because someone thinks it sounds all neat and tidy. Sorry, Sauble Beach does not need to be a Grand Bend (aren't they boiling water as I write). Sauble Beach will never be a Bayfield (oh wait, they are boiling water as well). My ideas vis a vis inspections would put the onus of clean water and functioning (non leaching) septic tanks on the owner themselves. Just like with oil tanks . . .now they have to be inspected to be used.

Ditch Testing

hockey17 — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:00:06 -0500

CL1368, I would be interested to know
where in Sauble you live, have ditches near
you been tested, has your water been tested,
what were the results and have you brought
this info to your local councillor to be
actioned. Also, could you please tell me
where I could find a ditch anywhere in the
TSBP that isn't polluted. If you can't then
logically this means that now all of the
TSBP need the pipeline and everyone in the
TSBP then pays. If not, why not??

Democracy in action part 3

bub — Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:15:46 -0500

In keeping with our prior posts water, pipeline , and power budd and democracy in action it has come to notice that SBP has passed a resolution ordering that no correspondence suggesting town council support appear on town letterhead, without majority approval of council.This is in reaction to Mayor Noble pressing his views on the water pipeline, and that he doesnt need the council support.It was voted against by Noble and councillor Wunderlich and passed by all others, proposed and seconded by councillors Gilbert and Varley.